In Content Moderation Cases, Supreme Court Says ‘Try Again’ – But Makes It Clear Moderation Deserves First Amendment Protections

from the mostly-good-news dept

Today, the Supreme Court made it pretty clear that websites have First Amendment rights to do content moderation as they see fit, but decided to send the cases challenging laws in Florida and Texas back to the lower courts to be litigated properly, effectively criticizing the litigation posture of the trade groups, NetChoice and CCIA, which brought the challenges in the first place. However, in doing so, the majority of the court also was pretty explicit that the Fifth Circuit got everything wrong all over again.

The Supreme Court waited until the very last day of the term to finally release its decisions in the cases regarding Florida and Texas’s social media moderation laws. I’m not going to go through a full history of either, as we’ve covered them in detail in the past, but both laws sought to place restrictions on how social media companies could moderate content in certain circumstances (generally political). The question at the heart of both cases was whether or not governments could compel private websites to host speech that those websites didn’t wish to host (i.e., violated their terms of service).

Both district courts rejected that premise as obviously unconstitutional. The appeals courts split, however. The 11th Circuit agreed that the law was mostly unconstitutional (though it allowed one problematic provision on transparency to continue). The 5th Circuit went rogue, upending a century’s worth of First Amendment law to say of course Texas has a right to compel websites to host speech that violates their rules.

The Supreme Court took its sweet time in dealing with this case, and now sends both cases back to the lower courts, saying that everyone did the analysis wrong: specifically by assuming the laws only applied to social media sites like Facebook and YouTube, when the reality is that they also probably apply to lots of other sites as well, and need to be analyzed on that basis.

The overall opinion on that point was 9-0, but there’s a bit of messiness involved in the rest, with some concurrences in parts and Alito, Thomas, and Gorsuch concurring only with the bottom line that the cases were decided on the wrong basis but insisting that the rest of the majority opinion, written by Justice Kagan, is unnecessary dicta that has no impact.

And while that may technically be true, that dicta makes some pretty strong and important points regarding the First Amendment rights of private platforms to moderate as they see fit, while the concurrence by Alito seems to disagree with Alito’s own dissent in the Murthy case from just last week.

Here’s a relatively quick analysis of the decision, and I’m sure we’ll have deeper, more nuanced analyses going forward.

Kagan starts off the majority opinion by citing back to the Reno v. ACLU case, which tossed out the Communications Decency Act (but not Section 230) as unconstitutional, and established some basic principles regarding how the First Amendment applies to the internet. And while the opinion notes that the internet has changed a lot, the First Amendment still applies:

But courts still have a necessary role in protecting those entities’ rights of speech, as courts have historically protected traditional media’s rights. To the extent that social media platforms create expressive products, they receive the First Amendment’s protection. And although these cases are here in a preliminary posture, the current record suggests that some platforms, in at least some functions, are indeed engaged in expression. In constructing certain feeds, those platforms make choices about what third-party speech to display and how to display it. They include and exclude, organize and prioritize—and in making millions of those decisions each day, produce their own distinctive compilations of expression. And while much about social media is new, the essence of that project is something this Court has seen before. Traditional publishers and editors also select and shape other parties’ expression into their own curated speech products. And we have repeatedly held that laws curtailing their editorial choices must meet the First Amendment’s requirements. The principle does not change because the curated compilation has gone from the physical to the virtual world. In the latter, as in the former, government efforts to alter an edited compilation of third-party expression are subject to judicial review for compliance with the First Amendment.

But, in the end, the cases are sent back on somewhat technical grounds, because the courts should have reviewed the “facial nature” of the challenge. This was the issue that came up a lot during oral arguments. In short: was the challenge to the law itself (facial), or to how it was applied (as applied)? And, the majority basically says rather than spending so much time talking about what it would mean if the law were applied to social media sites specifically, the courts should have taken a step back to look at the entire law and whether or not it was constitutional at all.

Today, we vacate both decisions for reasons separate from the First Amendment merits, because neither Court of Appeals properly considered the facial nature of NetChoice’s challenge. The courts mainly addressed what the parties had focused on. And the parties mainly argued these cases as if the laws applied only to the curated feeds offered by the largest and most paradigmatic social-media platforms—as if, say, each case presented an as-applied challenge brought by Facebook protesting its loss of control over the content of its News Feed. But argument in this Court revealed that the laws might apply to, and differently affect, other kinds of websites and apps. In a facial challenge, that could well matter, even when the challenge is brought under the First Amendment. As explained below, the question in such a case is whether a law’s unconstitutional applications are substantial compared to its constitutional ones. To make that judgment, a court must determine a law’s full set of applications, evaluate which are constitutional and which are not, and compare the one to the other. Neither court performed that necessary inquiry.

In effect, this means that the underlying issues in this case are almost certainly going to come right back to the Supreme Court in another year or two. But still, Kagan makes it pretty clear that there are lots of elements in these laws that appear to attack the First Amendment rights of websites. In setting forth “the relevant constitutional principles” it becomes pretty clear that the Fifth Circuit’s total nuttiness concerns the court.

Contrary to what the Fifth Circuit thought, the current record indicates that the Texas law does regulate speech when applied in the way the parties focused on below—when applied, that is, to prevent Facebook (or YouTube) from using its content-moderation standards to remove, alter, organize, prioritize, or disclaim posts in its News Feed (or homepage). The law then prevents exactly the kind of editorial judgments this Court has previously held to receive First Amendment protection. It prevents a platform from compiling the third-party speech it wants in the way it wants, and thus from offering the expressive product that most reflects its own views and priorities. Still more, the law—again, in that specific application—is unlikely to withstand First Amendment scrutiny. Texas has thus far justified the law as necessary to balance the mix of speech on Facebook’s News Feed and similar platforms; and the record reflects that Texas officials passed it because they thought those feeds skewed against politically conservative voices. But this Court has many times held, in many contexts, that it is no job for government to decide what counts as the right balance of private expression—to “un-bias” what it thinks biased, rather than to leave such judgments to speakers and their audiences. That principle works for social-media platforms as it does for others.

The majority’s concern then is really just on how the case was litigated, in which it was brought as a facial challenge to the law itself, but litigated as if it were an as-applied challenge. And that meant the record is incomplete for a full facial challenge.

The parties have not briefed the critical issues here, and the record is underdeveloped. So we vacate the decisions below and remand these cases. That will enable the lower courts to consider the scope of the laws’ applications, and weigh the unconstitutional as against the constitutional ones.

But, again and again, the decision still makes it pretty clear that six out of the nine Justices appear to recognize just how crazy these laws are, and just how wrong the Fifth Circuit was in deciding that the law in Texas was just peachy.

But it is necessary to say more about how the First Amendment relates to the laws’ content-moderation provisions, to ensure that the facial analysis proceeds on the right path in the courts below. That need is especially stark for the Fifth Circuit. Recall that it held that the content choices the major platforms make for their main feeds are “not speech” at all, so States may regulate them free of the First Amendment’s restraints. 49 F. 4th, at 494; see supra, at 8. And even if those activities were expressive, the court held, Texas’s interest in better balancing the marketplace of ideas would satisfy First Amendment scrutiny. See 49 F. 4th, at 482. If we said nothing about those views, the court presumably would repeat them when it next considers NetChoice’s challenge. It would thus find that significant applications of the Texas law—and so significant inputs into the appropriate facial analysis—raise no First Amendment difficulties. But that conclusion would rest on a serious misunderstanding of First Amendment precedent and principle. The Fifth Circuit was wrong in concluding that Texas’s restrictions on the platforms’ selection, ordering, and labeling of third-party posts do not interfere with expression. And the court was wrong to treat as valid Texas’s interest in changing the content of the platforms’ feeds. Explaining why that is so will prevent the Fifth Circuit from repeating its errors as to Facebook’s and YouTube’s main feeds. (And our analysis of Texas’s law may also aid the Eleventh Circuit, which saw the First Amendment issues much as we do, when next considering NetChoice’s facial challenge.) But a caveat: Nothing said here addresses any of the laws’ other applications, which may or may not share the First Amendment problems described below

The majority opinion, rightly, points to the important Miami Herald v. Tornillo case that said that newspapers have the right to decide not to publish someone’s political views if they chose not to. Much of the debate in all of the cases around these laws was whether or not websites were more like newspapers, in which the Miami Herald ruling would apply, or if they were more like telephone lines, in which common carrier rules could apply. The majority pointing to Miami Herald suggests they realize (correctly) how the First Amendment works here.

The seminal case is Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornillo, 418 U. S. 241 (1974). There, a Florida law required a newspaper to give a political candidate a right to reply when it published “criticism and attacks on his record.” Id., at 243. The Court held the law to violate the First Amendment because it interfered with the newspaper’s “exercise of editorial control and judgment.” Id., at 258. Forcing the paper to print what “it would not otherwise print,” the Court explained, “intru[ded] into the function of editors.” Id., at 256, 258. For that function was, first and foremost, to make decisions about the “content of the paper” and “[t]he choice of material to go into” it. Id., at 258. In protecting that right of editorial control, the Court recognized a possible downside. It noted the access advocates’ view (similar to the States’ view here) that “modern media empires” had gained ever greater capacity to “shape” and even “manipulate popular opinion.” Id., at 249–250. And the Court expressed some sympathy with that diagnosis. See id., at 254. But the cure proposed, it concluded, collided with the First Amendment’s antipathy to state manipulation of the speech market. Florida, the Court explained, could not substitute “governmental regulation” for the “crucial process” of editorial choice.

The fact that social media shows most content and only limits a very small amount doesn’t change the First Amendment analysis from the Miami Herald case (despite what some nonsense peddlers insisted):

That those platforms happily convey the lion’s share of posts submitted to them makes no significant First Amendment difference. Contra, 49 F. 4th, at 459–461 (arguing otherwise). To begin with, Facebook and YouTube exclude (not to mention, label or demote) lots of content from their News Feed and homepage. The Community Standards and Community Guidelines set out in copious detail the varied kinds of speech the platforms want no truck with. And both platforms appear to put those manuals to work. In a single quarter of 2021, Facebook removed from its News Feed more than 25 million pieces of “hate speech content” and almost 9 million pieces of “bullying and harassment content.” App. in No. 22–555, at 80a. Similarly, YouTube deleted in one quarter more than 6 million videos violating its Guidelines. See id., at 116a. And among those are the removals the Texas law targets. What is more, this Court has already rightly declined to focus on the ratio of rejected to accepted content.

And, yes, the decision notes, users may attribute views to the platforms themselves based on what they allow or disallow:

Similarly, the major social-media platforms do not lose their First Amendment protection just because no one will wrongly attribute to them the views in an individual post. Contra, 49 F. 4th, at 462 (arguing otherwise). For starters, users may well attribute to the platforms the messages that the posts convey in toto. Those messages—communicated by the feeds as a whole—derive largely from the platforms’ editorial decisions about which posts to remove, label, or demote. And because that is so, the platforms may indeed “own” the overall speech environment. In any event, this Court has never hinged a compiler’s First Amendment protection on the risk of misattribution. The Court did not think in Turner—and could not have thought in Tornillo or PG&E—that anyone would view the entity conveying the third-party speech at issue as endorsing its content.

As for the favorite two cases of those pushing these laws, Pruneyard (about a shopping mall) and FAIR (about allowing military recruiters on campus), the Court notes that the organizations involved in both were not expressive by nature, as opposed to social media, which is expressive.

To be sure, the Court noted in PruneYard and FAIR, when denying such protection, that there was little prospect of misattribution. See 447 U. S., at 87; 547 U. S., at 65. But the key fact in those cases, as noted above, was that the host of the third party speech was not itself engaged in expression. See supra, at 16–17. The current record suggests the opposite as to Facebook’s News Feed and YouTube’s homepage. When the platforms use their Standards and Guidelines to decide which third-party content those feeds will display, or how the display will be ordered and organized, they are making expressive choices. And because that is true, they receive First Amendment protection.

Even more interesting: the Court notes that the Texas law almost certainly couldn’t even survive lower levels of First Amendment scrutiny because the entire point of the law is to suppress free speech.

In the usual First Amendment case, we must decide whether to apply strict or intermediate scrutiny. But here we need not. Even assuming that the less stringent form of First Amendment review applies, Texas’s law does not pass. Under that standard, a law must further a “substantial governmental interest” that is “unrelated to the suppression of free expression.” United States v. O’Brien, 391 U. S. 367, 377 (1968). Many possible interests relating to social media can meet that test; nothing said here puts regulation of NetChoice’s members off-limits as to a whole array of subjects. But the interest Texas has asserted cannot carry the day: It is very much related to the suppression of free expression, and it is not valid, let alone substantial.

Indeed, the statements from Texas politicians pushing the law undermine the law pretty clearly:

Texas has never been shy, and always been consistent, about its interest: The objective is to correct the mix of speech that the major social-media platforms present. In this Court, Texas described its law as “respond[ing]” to the platforms’ practice of “favoring certain viewpoints.” Brief for Texas 7; see id., at 27 (explaining that the platforms’ “discrimination” among messages “led to [the law’s] enactment”). The large social-media platforms throw out (or encumber) certain messages; Texas wants them kept in (and free from encumbrances), because it thinks that would create a better speech balance. The current amalgam, the State explained in earlier briefing, was “skewed” to one side. 573 F. Supp. 3d, at 1116. And that assessment mirrored the stated views of those who enacted the law, save that the latter had a bit more color. The law’s main sponsor explained that the “West Coast oligarchs” who ran social media companies were “silenc[ing] conservative viewpoints and ideas.” Ibid. The Governor, in signing the legislation, echoed the point: The companies were fomenting a “dangerous movement” to “silence” conservatives. Id., at 1108; see id., at 1099 (“[S]ilencing conservative views is unAmerican, it’s un-Texan and it’s about to be illegal in Texas”).

But a State may not interfere with private actors’ speech to advance its own vision of ideological balance. States (and their citizens) are of course right to want an expressive realm in which the public has access to a wide range of views. That is, indeed, a fundamental aim of the First Amendment. But the way the First Amendment achieves that goal is by preventing the government from “tilt[ing] public debate in a preferred direction.” Sorrell v. IMS Health Inc., 564 U. S. 552, 578–579 (2011). It is not by licensing the government to stop private actors from speaking as they wish and preferring some views over others. And that is so even when those actors possess “enviable vehicle[s]” for expression. Hurley, 515 U. S., at 577. In a better world, there would be fewer inequities in speech opportunities; and the government can take many steps to bring that world closer. But it cannot prohibit speech to improve or better balance the speech market.

And Texas can’t do that:

They cannot prohibit private actors from expressing certain views. When Texas uses that language, it is to say what private actors cannot do: They cannot decide for themselves what views to convey. The innocent-sounding phrase does not redeem the prohibited goal. The reason Texas is regulating the content moderation policies that the major platforms use for their feeds is to change the speech that will be displayed there. Texas does not like the way those platforms are selecting and moderating content, and wants them to create a different expressive product, communicating different values and priorities. But under the First Amendment, that is a preference Texas may not impose.

And thus, while the Court is sending the case back to the lower courts to review correctly under the necessary standards for a facial challenge, it makes it clear that the Fifth Circuit really fucked up its analysis, even if just to how social media functions:

But there has been enough litigation already to know that the Fifth Circuit, if it stayed the course, would get wrong at least one significant input into the facial analysis. The parties treated Facebook’s News Feed and YouTube’s homepage as the heartland applications of the Texas law. At least on the current record, the editorial judgments influencing the content of those feeds are, contrary to the Fifth Circuit’s view, protected expressive activity. And Texas may not interfere with those judgments simply because it would prefer a different mix of messages. How that matters for the requisite facial analysis is for the Fifth Circuit to decide. But it should conduct that analysis in keeping with two First Amendment precepts. First, presenting a curated and “edited compilation of [third party] speech” is itself protected speech. Hurley, 515 U. S., at 570. And second, a State “cannot advance some points of view by burdening the expression of others.” PG&E, 475 U. S., at 20. To give government that power is to enable it to control the expression of ideas, promoting those it favors and suppressing those it does not. And that is what the First Amendment protects all of us from.

Of the concurrences, Justice Barrett leans harder on the idea that NetChoice should have brought an “as applied” challenge, rather than a facial challenge. Justice Jackson also seems to feel that the litigation and the lower courts went too far in their analysis, and not just what was being challenged.

Justice Thomas wrote a concurrence with the underlying decision, but then whines for many pages about the rest of the majority’s analysis regarding the Fifth Circuit, saying that it is a waste of time, and also that it’s too early to be deciding these issues. He goes on for many pages slamming other Supreme Court decisions as well for being too broad. And, just to show how wrong he is, starts talking about “common carriers,” something even the final Fifth Circuit ruling wouldn’t fully endorse.

Justice Alito wrote a similar concurrence (which Thomas and Gorsuch sign onto) basically saying “we only agree that the cases should be sent back to the courts below to be evaluated as a facial challenge, and everything else in the majority decision is useless nonsense:

The holding in these cases is narrow: NetChoice failed to prove that the Florida and Texas laws they challenged are facially unconstitutional. Everything else in the opinion of the Court is nonbinding dicta.

I agree with the bottom line of the majority’s central holding. But its description of the Florida and Texas laws, as well as the litigation that shaped the question before us, leaves much to be desired. Its summary of our legal precedents is incomplete. And its broader ambition of providing guidance on whether one part of the Texas law is unconstitutional as applied to two features of two of the many platforms that it reaches—namely, Facebook’s News Feed and YouTube’s homepage—is unnecessary and unjustified.

In the end, these cases are not over. They’ll go back below and we’ll get more decisions and there’s a decent enough chance that the cases will end up back before the Supreme Court again. But there is a lot in the majority opinion which makes it clear that the Fifth Circuit’s decision was absolutely as nutty and ridiculous as I described when it came out. And that part of the decision is supported by Kagan, Sotomayor, Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Barrett (in other words, five of the nine Justices). And it’s mostly supported by Jackson (she just didn’t sign on to the full analysis of the Texas law’s many Constitutional problems, suggesting it was too early to do so).

This is a good sign for the overall internet and the First Amendment rights of websites to have editorial discretion in how they moderate.

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Companies: ccia, netchoice

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Comments on “In Content Moderation Cases, Supreme Court Says ‘Try Again’ – But Makes It Clear Moderation Deserves First Amendment Protections”

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51 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Yes, moderation decisions are protected even if the decision is “let it all go”.

As I’ve stated before, “take no action” is still a choice. “Apply no criteria” is still an algorithm. This is why “(company) may not apply algorithms to (eg minors)” laws are so stupid.

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That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

Something to consider…

Perhaps we should take moment to look at the CalvinBall being played in nearly every circuit & ask ourselves the question…

Perhaps listening to the Federalist Society about who should be on the bench is a bad idea.

I mean Boeing only had to crash, what 3 planes, before we started to ask if perhaps there might be something wrong in there… (looks at the 5th Circuit) we’re way beyond 3 here… perhaps its time to get to the bottom of the problem.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

They’re not doing that in the first place, so they can’t exactly keep doing that, but yes, they are permitted to moderate their platforms as they see fit, whether it is to continue what they have already been doing (not posting some comments that get caught by their spam filters, hiding comments that get enough flags from users, and deleting commercial spam) or to “censor[] and delet[e] [your] comments”.

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Anonymous Coward (user link) says:

Let’s say there’s a TV show. For the purposes of this discussion, I’ll just call it “The Show.” It has a fandom. Part of that fandom built a site dedicated to it. However, there are also people who passionately hate The Show. Maybe it’s politics, maybe they don’t like the plot, maybe they don’t like the tone… Whatever the reason, they hate The Show. Some of these people found the fansite and decided to just dunk on The Show at any opportunity there–bashing characters, hating on episodes, mocking fanart and fan fiction, and so on. Fans of The Show who used the fansite find that annoying. The fansite is, obviously, a fansite, not a hatesite. It’s geared toward fans of The Show, not people who hate The Show. The staff decide that haters are no longer welcome; anyone who’s only there to pick fights with or generally be mean to fans of the Show is banned. The haters complain that they’re being censored.

The courts obviously have to focus purely on what the law–up to and including the Constitution–says rather than what is reasonable, but I’m more concerned with the latter. If the fansite may not ban haters or otherwise limit their reach, then a fair number of fans will leave the site due to it becoming less pleasant for them. While they can still bond with other fans of The Show, haters are constantly bringing down the mood. Put another way, forcing the site to host the haters hinders the site from serving its intended purpose and deprives a fair number of fans of an online community.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

Yeah, that is pretty much the reasoning behind moderation on any interactive web service that gives a shit about curating a community. If mods/admins let the bullshit run rampant, users who doesn’t want to wallow in the bullshit will leave for places with far less bullshit. This is, incidentally, why social media services that cater to conservative-minded people hardly ever become as popular as the more moderated services that try to let everyone use the site and only ban people who violate the TOS: Nobody but TRASH people want to use a service designed for TRASH people. That logic is also why lots of people (and advertisers) have left Twitter after Musk took over.

And before anyone thinks to go in that direction: Yes, a service effectively limiting who can enter/enjoy a space by political ideology alone will inherently create a smaller userbase than ostensibly “less political” services. Sometimes, that’s what people want⁠—not an “echo chamber”, but as safe a space as possible for people who would be harassed off other platforms. And sometimes, that’s the result of a platform letting TRASH rhetoric run rampant because the people who run it are TRASH themselves, even if those same people believe their platform should be more popular precisely because they let that rhetoric run rampant.

Moderation is curation. How a given service moderates will decide what kind of community that service curates. You can see exactly the kind of service that, say, Truth Social wants to be by comparing the kind of speech it encourages with the kind of speech it discourages. I mean, you probably won’t find much support for raising taxes on the rich to feed and shelter the poor on a website owned by Donald Trump.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

In an echo chamber, nobody disagrees, and regular (good faith) commenters here have disagreed with each other many times. Besides, what you call an “echo chamber” is a curated online environment where the social group within has decided (largely without the aid of the BestNetTech staff) that bad faith bullshit and TRASH rhetoric have no place here.

Think of these comments sections as a living room. You wouldn’t invite people to come and dump garbage into your living room. I see no reason why BestNetTech should tolerate people doing the commenting equivalent thereof. If the staff wants to clean up comments sections by deleting obvious bad faith bullshit and TRASH rhetoric, that’s not censorship⁠—that’s moderation, and moreover, it’s the curation of a community that has already decided (via flagging) that such garbage isn’t welcome.

The overwhelming majority of hidden/deleted comments involve someone flinging an insult or a racial slur instead of trying to have an actual conversation. Saying “BestNetTech sucks” in a comment isn’t critique because critique implies a conversation. Saying “I disagree with the article” and laying out a reasoned argument for that disagreement is critique. And unless you have no problems with people openly saying the N-word, you probably don’t have an issue with BestNetTech exercising its legally protected right to say “we don’t allow that here” and get rid of those comments.

If you plan to keep whining about hidden/deleted comments that BestNetTech staff and commenters alike both believe aren’t worth anyone’s time, please go do that somewhere else. But be careful if you decide to do that. You may fall into an echo chamber and decide you want to hear your own bullshit endlessly reflected back at you. After all, that’s what an echo chamber is in real life: you hearing your own voice over and over for as long as you’re in there. If you want that, go somewhere that will always agree with and therefore never challenge you in any way. But if you want to have an actual conversation, stick around here and act like a decent person. The rest of us will be glad to have a good faith conversation with you if you put in the effort to be part of one.

huskcummerbund (profile) says:

Why are they making this so complicated?

I always thought content moderation on websites was a pretty simple problem that has nothing to do with the First Amendment rights of the users. The website is a business, and businesses are allowed to refuse service to anyone for just about any reason that doesn’t specifically run afoul of other discrimination statutes. Even if a social media company outright bans a user, the user’s First Amendment rights are not violated since they are still free to spout all the bullshit they want wherever they are. They are just not allowed to do it using that business as a venue for said bullshit spouting.

Am I wrong here? Have I oversimplified the problem and am missing something fundamental to this rather stupid argument?

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Rocky says:

Re:

Am I wrong here? Have I oversimplified the problem and am missing something fundamental to this rather stupid argument?

No, but you have to remember that those making that argument are usually entitled assholes who hates the fact that everyone else also have rights which they are free to exercise. The argument isn’t actually about the 1A, the argument is that the assholes don’t have free reach but they frame it as a 1A issue.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Because neither the facts or the law on on the side of the whiners

The problem you’re running into is that you’re not a self-entitled douchebag who thinks that ‘free speech’ is short for consequence-free speech, and that it includes the right to speak on whatever property you want, even if the owner of said property doesn’t want you there.

Or to put it another way, it’s ‘complicated’ because the people throwing fits about their first amendment rights being ‘violated’ are basing that position on a wildly incorrect and dishonest take on what the first amendment and even free speech in general actually say and mean.

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joebuckeye (profile) says:

Re: Re:

To me, websites hosting users’ comments are no different than newspapers printing letters to the editor. I would be willing to bet that newspapers don’t print every letter they get and I wonder if they might edit the ones they do print from time to time.

Many times you have to take virtual actions and convert them into their real world equivalent to see if they should be allowed or not. I’ve seen commercials where the ad is basically enacting various spam emails in the real world in order to educate people about how they might react to the same situation in the real world and tell them to do the same with any emails, texts or calls they get.

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Rich Kulawiec says:

We had this debate 40+ years ago

Back in the days when we had the ARPAnet, and CSnet, and Usenet, and others, we bumped into (pretty much) the same set of questions and we argued about (pretty much) the same set of possible solutions. “No moderation at all” was tried, repeatedly, and failed every single time — so while it certainly embodied a principle that some people supported, it was unworkable in the real world. It still is, and so it can safely be dismissed from the conversation.

That leaves “some kind of moderation” and of course there’s endless debate over what and how. But there are a couple of important lessons that apply no matter what and how, and unfortunately those seem to have gotten lost — which is why some operations are now laboriously climbing the learning curve again instead of learning from our mistakes and avoiding them.

One is that you need to think through this very thoroughly and be ready to handle it BEFORE you launch. Whatever you’re going to do and however you’re going to do it needs to all be in place on day one.

And two is that trying to moderate content by moderating content never works. You moderate people, because it’s almost always a tiny number of people who cause the overwhelming majority of problems. For example, per the Center for Countering Digital Hate, just 12 anti-vaxers are responsible for almost 2/3 of anti-vaccine content circulating on social media platforms:

https://counterhate.com/research/the-disinformation-dozen/

Keep that study in mind when apologists for Facebook, Twitter, etc. complain that it’s so hard to stop anti-vax nonsense.

One more thing: it’s important to keep in mind that while this case focused on (a) social media (b) web sites, the Internet is far more than (a) and far more than (b). Usenet’s still running, there are hundreds of thousands of mailing lists, there are millions of non-social-media web sites, and sooner or later, someone will invent something which replaces the web (perhaps in the same way that the web supplanted gopher). Good case law will take a long view, will take all of this into account and won’t be driven by the transient existence of Facebook, Twitter, (MySpace), etc.

Anonymous Coward says:

To make that judgment, a court must determine a law’s full set of applications, evaluate which are constitutional and which are not, and compare the one to the other.

And

NetChoice failed to prove that the Florida and Texas laws they challenged are facially unconstitutional.

Hi. Can you all think of any remotely constitutional thing that can happen with the wording of the law?

Is this just a “show your work” thing – the arguments were that bad?

Do you just want to waste everyone’s time, including that of the courts, a thing of which most courts love to complain. Do these idiot states and the adversarial organizations just need to waste more money?

Are lawyers suffering from a lack of work?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

For decades, SCOTUS has been doing this thing where they decide as little as possible (except when they don’t; see the abortion decision) on as narrow a ground as possible. This is true across partisan lines (except when it isn’t, see above); the very first question anyone with a legal brain had after Heller was whether it applied to the states, so naturally it took two years and an entirely new case for SCOTUS to hold that it did in Mcdonald. The usual reason given for this is to avoid upending decades of precedent (except when they do it anyway, again see above). Combining their refusal to answer obvious follow-up questions with them taking fewer and fewer cases each year, the practical consequence is that SCOTUS is sliding into irrelevance.

Arianity says:

As for the favorite two cases of those pushing these laws, Pruneyard (about a shopping mall) and FAIR (about allowing military recruiters on campus), the Court notes that the organizations involved in both were not expressive by nature, as opposed to social media, which is expressive.

That seems…wrong/concerning? You aren’t supposed to get more protections for being an expressive organization. For the same reason journalists don’t get extra protection.

Arianity says:

And for that, the actions need to be about expression. So, that’s true for social media. It’s not true for malls.

That’s the part I don’t get. Malls as an organization aren’t necessarily expressive by themselves, but the action the mall was taking (choosing to let someone solicit on the property) in Pruneyard seems expressive. That looks like a form of content moderation.

And in particular, the type of expression people would judge the mall for allowing or not.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Remember how Elon Musk claimed that cis is a slur last year and threatened anyone who ‘harassed’ other users with it a ban? So, I just got a ban for informing Graham Linehan that everyone on Earth is cislunar. This both proves Elmo’s First Amendment rights and his disregard for others’ freedom of speech.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

And now the voting period is over, I’d also like to add that I’m the person who said I would adjust the pronouns I use about you if necessary, whether you are male, female, or some other gender (or none), after you came out as trans a couple weeks ago and had the comment flagged into invisibility because so many commenters couldn’t stand the fact that I was showing respect for a member of a demographic they hate.

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