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NY’s ‘SAFE For Kids Act’: A Lesson in How Not to Regulate The Internet

from the make-sure-you-only-read-this-article-in-chronological-order dept

We’ve written a few times about New York’s preposterously bonkers “SAFE for Kids Act” (SAFE standing for “Stop Addictive Feeds Exploitation”). It’s an obviously unconstitutional bill that insists, without any real evidence, that basically all social media algorithmic feeds are somehow addictive and problematic.

Last week we posted a letter by a NY-based parent to his own legislators explaining why the bill would inherently do more harm than good.

But, no matter, the NY legislature passed a slightly modified version of the bill last week, which you can read here. The bill no longer has random, unsubstantiated bans on kids using social media in the middle of the night, but still bans algorithmic feeds for kids.

This means age verification will effectively become mandatory, despite claims to the contrary from bill supporters. If you will get in trouble for serving some type of content to those under 18, you need to have a system to determine how old they are. Thus, privacy-damaging age verification is effectively mandated.

But, even more important, the effective banning of algorithmic feeds is ridiculous. There is no evidence that the algorithmic nature of feeds has anything to do with any harm. It is all a fever dream by ignorant politicians. I know for a fact that when the sponsor of this bill, Andrew Gounardes, was asked by a constituent for evidence of the harms, he was dismissed as simply repeating “big tech talking points.” Gounardes seems absolutely convinced that any criticism of the bill must be from “big tech” lobbyists and refuses to consider the very real problems of this bill.

And the same is true for NY Governor Kathy Hochul, who cheered on the passage of the bill:

Governor Kathy Hochul today celebrated the legislative passage of two nation-leading bills to protect kids online. The Stop Addictive Feeds Exploitation (SAFE) for Kids Act will restrict a child’s access to addictive feeds on social media, and the New York Child Data Protection Act will keep children’s personal data safe.

“New York is leading the nation to protect our kids from addictive social media feeds and shield their personal data from predatory companies,” Governor Hochul said. “Together, we’ve taken a historic step forward in our efforts to address the youth mental health crisis and create a safer digital environment for young people. I am grateful to Attorney General James, Majority Leader Stewart-Cousins and Speaker Heastie, and bill sponsors Senator Gounardes and Assemblymember Rozic for their vital partnership in advancing this transformative legislation.”

Remember, Hochul has been trying to blame social media for repeated failings of her own administration, so it’s little surprise she would celebrate this law.

But, again, to date, the research simply does not support the idea that algorithmic feeds are harmful or addictive. Studies have been done on both Meta properties and Twitter that find the only real difference between algorithmic and chronological feeds is that when forced to use chronological feeds, users see a lot more disinformation and junk they don’t want.

What Gounardes, Hochul, and lots of very silly people refuse to understand is that algorithmic recommendations not only give users more of what they want to see, but they also help remove the stuff they don’t want to see. And that’s kind of important.

But, really, just for the sake of comparison, if NY politicians are allowed to determine what content you see when you open a social media app, it also means they think they can control what content you see when you open a news story. What’s to stop them from similarly (falsely) claiming that editorial recommendations in the NY Times or the WSJ are “addictive” and all media sites need to only post articles in chronological order?

These requirements clearly violate the First Amendment, and it’s not a “big tech talking point” to say so.

It’s getting ridiculously exhausting to have to point out the problems with all of these clueless state laws from very foolish politicians, and for them to falsely insist that any critiques must come from “big tech.”

It would be nice if there were serious lawmakers out there willing to have serious discussions on the policies they’re thinking about. Tragically, New York has a bunch of clowns instead, just like tons of other states these days. It’s not partisan in any way. New York and California, both fairly blue states, have been pushing dozens of these kinds of laws. But so have Florida, Texas, Utah, Ohio, Arkansas and more.

Unfortunately these days, constitutionally infirm anti-internet legislation has become a bipartisan pastime. And the most likely result is that more taxpayer funds are going to be wasted while these nonsense bills are inevitably rejected as unconstitutional.

It seems that if you sponsor a bill that is eventually thrown out as unconstitutional, it should be grounds for impeachment.

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Comments on “NY’s ‘SAFE For Kids Act’: A Lesson in How Not to Regulate The Internet”

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Anonymous Coward says:

Just saw that degenerate drug-addict and probable sex-trafficker Hunter Biden was convicted of three felonies and has no immunity against likely future prosecutions (for tax evasion, failing to register as a foreign agent, etc).

All the more reason to not vote for President Biden (especially when his own corrupt practices are revealed) and instead support Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s campaign!

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Hunter Biden should be convicted of crimes he actually committed. Good.

Inventing crimes, on the other hand, is bullshit.

None of those things have anything to do with Joe Biden, as crap as he is.

Kennedy, on the other hand, is nothing but crap, and personally claims brain damage anyway, so yeah right i’ll be sure to vote for him lol.

But thanks for your comments about (checks notes) the Stop Addictive Feeds Exploitation for Kids Act and the New York Child Data Protection Act. Huh.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

None of those things have anything to do with Joe Biden, as crap as he is.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, buddy.

Joe Biden raised his son to be a drug abuser, woman exploiter, (likely) sex trafficker, and convicted felon. Ergo, Joe Biden probably has a similar criminal character or qualities (he just hasn’t been prosecuted yet, like in the case of his mishandling of classified documents).

A vote for Joe Biden is a vote for criminality.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Hunter Biden has been found guilty on 3 felony counts.
Donald Trump has been found guilty on 34 felony counts so far.

Meanwhile, Hunter Biden isn’t running for president, but Donald Trump is. Joe Biden has been found guilty of zero felonies.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

So that means we can get to hold politicians liable for what their kids do?

I expect that every republican politician will be held to that?

https://people.com/crime/conor-kennedy-bar-fight-homophobic-slur/

https://people.com/crime/conor-kennedy-pleads-guilty-bar-fight/

https://www.pressrepublican.com/news/local_news/plattsburgh-man-arrested-for-hate-crime/article_69623585-5a0e-595f-844f-8484c6b271ef.html

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Also, what Hunter did has nothing to do with Joe Biden,

Of course it does. Joe Biden is a failure as a father. He molested his own daughter, raised one son to be such an ineffective warrior that he got killed, and raised the other to sleep with his dead brother’s widow and cheat on his taxes. He’s unfit to serve as President.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
MindParadox (profile) says:

Re:

let’s see, one the one hand, we have a guy who feels that no matter how illegal the thing, because he is/was president, he should be above the law and untouchable.

on the other hand, we have a guy who didn’t pardon his own son, and has very deliberately stayed out of the court case so that whatever the courts decide, that’s what happens to his son.

Hmm. I like the rule of law, so I’m gonna vote biden.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: The third law of ... content delivery

Entropy rules every system, even algorithm design
1) You can’t win
– perfect moderation cannot exist
2) You can’t break even
– moderation is adversarial: improve your moderation, the troll will evolve.
3) You can’t quit the game.
– choosing to leave … involves moderation decisions (your content is 100% hidden/lost/etc – an algorithmic result)
– choosing not to have an algorithm, or not to employ one, is a business-ending decision. Man cannot browse the internet on word salad alone.

Anonymous Coward says:

This is obviously an illegitimate law, and a naked attempt at enforcing data collection. That being said, I kinda just… can’t bring myself to care about this one? So, what, they won’t be able to serve me ‘the algorithm’ without an age/give up your data gate? Oh no…

Looking forward to registering for youtube as a minor through a new york VPN so I can stop seeing clickbait slop in my recs feed.

Anonymous Coward says:

Well good thing the New York Child Data Protection Act will keep all the data hoovered up to comply with the non-existent age verification necessitated by (SAFE) totally secure. Or not the non-child data, i guess. Sucks to be an adult, or age out of the Child Data Act.

Seriously, if these “Big Tech” panic targets are so evil, why would you give them reason, nay, requirement, to collects everyone’s data, especially that of children? It’s like the mustache-twirling evil Big Tech wrote the law behind the scenes, left it on legislators’ desks, then said, “Lol no, don’t throw me in the briar patch lmao.”

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Seriously, if these “Big Tech” panic targets are so evil, why would you give them reason, nay, requirement, to collects everyone’s data, especially that of children?

If politicians cared even one bit to understand things before trying to legislate them, humanity wouldn’t have anything left to argue about by now.

Anonymous Coward says:

I don’t know if you can say that the only effect of the chronological feeds was seeing more disinformation. It looks like with chronological feeds once users were caught up they went to a different platform reducing usage, which might be a benefit to children.

Further, it is a mistake to say that it gives more of users want. It really gives more of what users have seen or engaged in whether they want to see it or not.

Anonymous Coward says:

What Gounardes, Hochul, and lots of very silly people refuse to understand is that algorithmic recommendations not only give users more of what they want to see, but they also help remove the stuff they don’t want to see. And that’s kind of important.

I wonder if that is what they fear. People not wanting to see them, and not having to.

ML2 (profile) says:

As A New Yorker...

… I would be extremely surprised if this bill ever goes into effect. The AG has to come up with regulations to implement the law before it and the law stipulates that one of the age verification methods chosen must either protect anonymity or not rely on government ID. This is of course impossible. Knowing NYS, they will likely be content with the signing ceremony for the bill alone and will then never mention it publicly again.

Meanwhile I expect a challenge to this law to swiftly follow Hochul’s signature. And unlike Texas, federal courts here do their jobs well.

I’m still going to vote for someone else in the 2026 primary. Hochul is an embarrassment to my state for so many reasons and I just want her to go away.

Arianity says:

But, again, to date, the research simply does not support the idea that algorithmic feeds are harmful or addictive. Studies have been done on both Meta properties and Twitter that find the only real difference between algorithmic and chronological feeds is that when forced to use chronological feeds, users see a lot more disinformation and junk they don’t want.

The link you’re linking to says nothing about addiction. To the extent that it looks at stuff indirectly related, like engagement, it at best is not helping your point, and at worst, actively saying the opposite.

The twitter study in the article also finds some increased junk: Twitter’s curation algorithm slightly increased the proportion of junk news exposures, especially for right-leaning agents in our study

What’s to stop them from similarly (falsely) claiming that editorial recommendations in the NY Times or the WSJ are “addictive” and all media sites need to only post articles in chronological order?

Well for one, we’re not kids. And as your other link points out: * It simply allows access with parental permission.*

Arianity says:

Re: Re:

The bar for Something seems kind of high here.

Absolutely. But there’s a big difference between a study looking for addiction and not finding it, as opposed to not looking at all.

The issue is not having a bar for something, that’s fine, but pointing to these studies as if they’re saying something they’re not. Especially knowing full well most people aren’t going to actually click to read the article/study

Samuel Abram (profile) says:

I know for a fact that when the sponsor of this bill, Andrew Gounardes, was asked by a constituent for evidence of the harms, he was dismissed as simply repeating “big tech talking points.” Gounardes seems absolutely convinced that any criticism of the bill must be from “big tech” lobbyists and refuses to consider the very real problems of this bill.

Fact Check: True.

blakestacey (profile) says:

If Gounardes is so convinced that Big Tech is the enemy of all that is good, he should delete his Facebook account.

And stop campaigning there.

“Oh, but I have to meet the voters where they are…” So, the reason you have two Twitter accounts is because you’re … chasing the neo-Nazi demographic?

Come on, man, at least put on a show of standing on principle.

blakestacey (profile) says:

Going by the plain text of the bill, a feature that detects when a user has been active for a long stretch of time and suggests going outside would be declared “addictive”.

So would an option on a web forum to have an account setting that hides all down-voted posts by default. That would constitute “prioritization”, you see, based on “information associated with the user” that, moreover, may “concern the user’s previous interactions” (i.e., the user’s own votes).

Even a chronological feed could run afoul, depending on how it handles cases like multiple reshares of the same post. Suppose that Alice follows both Bob and Charlie, and both Bob and Charlie share a post by Dave. Should Alice see Dave’s post once or twice? That’s a design question with no uniquely clear answer. Maybe Alice would be irritated if she saw the same post twice in five minutes, but pleased with the reminder if they were separated by a day. An option to make this adjustable based on account settings would again be “selection” or “prioritization” based on “information associated with the user”. Providing a chronological feed could even require using data points that “concern the user’s previous interactions”, e.g., not showing Alice re-shares of posts that she herself has already shared.

A chronological sort is of course an algorithm in the computer-science meaning — a step-by-step procedure that a machine can implement — but it also involves answering the same kinds of questions that go into designing an “algorithm” in the more fuzzy vernacular sense. These lawmakers, all of them johnny-come-latelies to criticizing the excesses and abuses of the tech industry, use “algorithm” to say “I don’t know what it is, but I’m agin’ it”.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: 'How dare you give us what we demanded?!'

Not so much tempting as inevitable, as companies are going to have to weigh if it’s worth it to operate in the state at all and deal with the resulting lawsuits versus creating a broken version of their service that complies with the law or just block users from the state entirely.

With probably the cheapest option being to just strip out any algorithmic sorting if they do stick around should insanity reign and the law isn’t struck down in short order they’ll really have no choice but to offer that very thing, though I doubt they’ll have the spine to accurately point the finger at those responsible.

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