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If You Want A Summary Of All The Ways In Which Elon Is A Hypocrite In How He’s Running Twitter, Watch This Video

from the lying-and-hypocrisy dept

If you’ve been reading BestNetTech over the past few months, literally nothing in this latest Cody Johnston video will be surprising or new, but it does do a really nice job of laying it all out in a pretty clear way in just 52 minutes of humorous exposition:

It sounds like Part II will be looking at the Twitter Files, which we’ve also debunked multiple times here, so I look forward to that as well.

The key point that Cody makes in the video, which we keep trying to highlight here, is that the issue is not that Musk isn’t free to run Twitter however he wants. He is. He can. The issue is that in speed running the content moderation learning curve not only is he going back on basically everything he said (hilariously to loud applause from his biggest cultish fans), but he’s only doing so when the “bad stuff” seems to impact him personally.

While the company used to have a trust & safety staff that focused on making the site “safe” for as many people as possible, almost all of the decisions we’ve seen to date under Musk are simply about making the site a safe space, personally, for Elon Musk. That is, people who are advocating violence or doxxing people Musk doesn’t know? Those seem free to continue, and are encouraged to drum up as much engagement as possible. But if Musk himself feels personally inconvenienced then, magically, he must do something.

The hypocrisy in these decisions is one thing. The fact that Musk seems to view the moderation decisions solely through the lens of what makes him feel better, personally, is what’s really telling. For years, we’ve highlighted that most critics of trust & safety efforts basically think the “right way” to do trust & safety is what they think is best for themselves. Musk is in the rare position where he can actually let that play out.

The reality for most other sites, though, is that they’re forced to face actual trade-offs about how to make the site more broadly trustworthy and safe. Musk doesn’t seem to realize that’s part of what’s necessary to make a site long-term sustainable. So, Twitter becomes his personal playground, but not one that the rest of us should want to play in.

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Comments on “If You Want A Summary Of All The Ways In Which Elon Is A Hypocrite In How He’s Running Twitter, Watch This Video”

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Matthew M Bennett says:

You haven't debunked ANYTHING

You keep on claiming you have, and you’ll spend pages doing so, but you’re just gaslighting and trying to pretend the plain meaning of words is not what they are.

Fuck, you even tried to claim yesterday with a straight face that publishing personal location info is not “Doxxing”. Completely ignored the definition that was posted! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing) This is either your first week on the internet (seems like, sometimes) or you’re just lying about what it is because you’re that fucking desperate to call Musk a hypocrite.

And yes, Twitter (Gadde included, whom you love so much) directed censorship on a political basis. (legal, but pretty fucked up)

Yes, numerous government agencies gave directions on who to ban and yes that is a 1A violation, actually. (no, it doesn’t matter at all that Twitter only listened half the time.) The violation is on the part of the FBI and others, not Twitter, but nonetheless the only appropriate response from Twitter was “don’t send us this crap” which they didn’t feel at all free to do cuz government was constantly talking about regulating them. Oh, they also hired a few dozen very recently ex-FBI agents. That doesn’t just happen.

No, censorship isn’t free speech, and yes moderation is a form of censorship. (also legal, as long as gov isn’t involved, but arguably a form of editorializing.)

All these words have definitions, and they are not what you claim, and you will spend pages and pages of digital ink pretending they are not what they plainly are.

I used to like what you wrote, 20 years ago, and I still like some of it: Stop writing on this subject. It is very clear you hate Musk on a personal level, probably because you liked the previous form of censorship (don’t make me cite your own posts at you), it is clear you are very far to the Left despite your claims, and that you have no objectivity on the subject at all. The whole process lessens you mostly cuz you wind up lying a whole lot and being incredibly snide when anyone calls you out on it (“I’m sorry you were lied to” as if we can’t fucking read).

Just Stahp.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:4

This is why your comments get flagged & hidden, you act like a childish fucking asshole.

I mean no, it obviously isn’t. (I am not denying being an asshole) All the left-wing childish assholes get left up (some much more vulgar) and even comments I make that relatively placid get flagged.

Truth is just that leftists are super hateful.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

It does not, in fact, say otherwise.

Except it does. If we can’t tolerate dissent around here, as you say we can’t, the several upthread posts with plenty of dissent that were directed at me in that discussion thread should all be hidden⁠—and yet, they’re all still visible. And I can guarantee that I haven’t flagged any of them.

Again: It’s not about dissent, it’s about you being a disingenuous asshole who thinks calling people names and going “I’m right, you’re wrong, neener-neener-neener” are suitable substitutes for a meaningful discussion. You are a child trying to act like a grown-up and coming off as a teenaged dipshit.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I’d like to remind everyone that while WordPress’ security is extremely laughable at times, Matthew is such a spiteful, tribal, and frankly violent asshole I don’t even WANT to spend the time learning how to bypass what passes for WordPress’ security to flag him multiple times.

And I’d LOVE it if he stopped posting for whatever reason.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Words are not violence and I am not violent, that’s something you just made up. (a common the thing the Left does to justify their censorship)

>

Pretty sure all you need to do is erase cookies and spoof your IP, something that can be automated. Pretty trivial.
But clearly somebody is doing it, or my posts wouldn’t be up for an hour and then all of them get flagged at the same time.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:4

What the fuck is it with you and this “prove it” nonsense? To what degree, what standard, is this a court of law? How?
Do you expect me to pull up BestNetTech’s IP logs? There are large categories of things in the world that are obvious and very likely but can’t be “proven” without detailed forensics.

The longer you talk the dumber you sound.

“Prove it didn’t happen or STFU!” That makes about as much sense to say.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

And I’ve explicitly said that it was not worth the time and effort to learn HOW to bypass that.

You are not very bright cuz as I just explained it’s super easy. There’s literally an app for that. (well, two)

You are just that disgusting, repulsive and frankly, violent.

The first two are opinions so think what you like but you really should be able to justify the third.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Ah, I see, you just didn’t understand the comment at all. That tracks.

Since you didn’t get it, it was a comment on the dangers communist revolutions particularly against an unarmed populace (as in the maoist cultural revolution). Stupid commies take over the government, start rounding up everyone against a wall who disagrees with them or fits in the wrong economic class and shoots them. (think Old Twitter, but bigger) Also see: Cuba, Cambodia, and Russia, etc. That all becomes considerably harder to impossible in a country with 300M guns and a 2A right. (of course first, they always try to confiscate the guns)

I was saying you nutbag leftists were going to start the violence.

Your ignorance is not my violence.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

Says the man who not only uses bigoted language, spouts debunked “conservative” talking points, defends a Rich White South African who simps for authcap politicians and dictators, and more importantly, thinks what happened on Jan 6 was not an insurrection. While going into hissyfits, gaslighting the comment section and the owner of the site and being so much of a beligerent bellend that the resident copyrigjt maximalist AGREES with the site owner.

You have to forgive me, the LA ritos have proven that only filth like you are allowed to defend their property with weapons, and the last time a racist managed to get into power, at least 6 million Jews and many more undesirable people had to die.

Your explanation is nothing more than justification of a physical threat.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

No, I’m accusing you of being a white supremacist and Neo-Nazi. The Roof Koreans, IIRC, were declared GUILTY for defending their homes and businesses with justifiable force, aka, GUNS, against rioters because the RACIST LAPD left them to die.

What you’ve done so far merely reinforces my accusation.

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Matthew Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:14

Yeah I get it except that’s dumb and makes no sense. I’m a racist who loves those Koreans who share my values?

And point of order i haven’t “done” anything that you know of. I’ve said a lot of things. Speech is not violence.

No, none of the rooftop Koreans were even arrested, you dumb shit, you couldn’t get that right.

If you’re going to call someone a nazi you really ought to put a little effort into making it make sense.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:17

No, it really isn’t. It’s even worse than the “black friend” argument, which is already a bad argument. “I’m not bigoted against X because I have a friend who is X,” is at least confronting the actual argument, even if poorly. “I’m not bigoted against X because I like lots of people who are Y,” is even worse because it doesn’t even vaguely appear to challenge the actual accusation. No one said anything about Koreans, so why you pointed to Koreans (and only Koreans) in response to being called “racist” makes no sense.

Even absent context to clarify who you are allegedly racist against, “Koreans” usually isn’t the race people think of first when it comes to such generalized accusations; black people, Hispanics, Arabs, Chinese people, Jews (as an ethnicity), and Native Americans come to mind first in my experience. Plus, you could’ve pointed to people of multiple races, not just Koreans.

A better reaction would be to ask for evidence that you’re racist or to ask on what grounds they call you a racist. Heck, even just giving examples other than just Koreans would’ve been better since nothing up to that point was specifically about Koreans or even Asians, generally.

And that is setting aside your assertion that they called you racist just because they disagree with you. The OP said:

Says the man who not only uses bigoted language, spouts debunked “conservative” talking points, defends a Rich White South African who simps for authcap politicians and dictators, and more importantly, thinks what happened on Jan 6 was not an insurrection.

So, the accusation that you are racist seems to be at least partly based on your alleged use of “bigoted language”, not just based on any disagreement between you. You can argue that none of your language was actually bigoted, but to say that mere disagreement was the sole basis for calling you a racist would be ignoring the actual words used in the comment initially accusing you of racism. At the very least, you should explain why the allegation of you using bigoted language is facetious and dishonestly made before claiming that the only basis for calling you racist was that you disagree with them.

(I’m not going to argue here about whether or not you are a racist. I’m just pointing out that your response to the accusation is severely lacking.)

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

To “prove” something that would require secret information?

So you have a claim that you can’t provide evidence for because you don’t have access to the information that would either confirm or debunk it.

In other words, you have an empty claim.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

If you have no evidence for it — because you don’t have access to BestNetTech’s guts — why are you so confident it is happening?

On the other hand, there is public data showing a lot of regular users here think you are a complete buffoon and that they’d really like to let you know that. This suffices in its entirety as an explanation for why your posts get flagged and hidden.

A lot of places you’d have been banned ages ago, because the village idiot principle of engagement isn’t worth the mess you make of every comment thread that even tangentially touches on Mr. Musk’s Wild Ride, and nor is it in my view particularly fair to outsource moderation efforts to your audience, but BestNetTech’s got something of a different culture in that respect.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

If you have no evidence for it — because you don’t have access to BestNetTech’s guts — why are you so confident it is happening?

Because it simply never occurred to him that he’s an asshole. It’s a general lack of self-awareness, quite common with his kind.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:14

No, no, I admit to being an asshole

Well, that’s a start. It’s an important first step in realizing you’re the problem.

and am also well aware SJWs can’t stand that someone might disagree with them.

…and then you fuck it all up trying to blame it on everyone else. You being full of shit, and cocksure of yourself about it is a ‘you’ problem, asshole.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

That’s how it always has been. That you are unable to prove something—even if it is understandable that you wouldn’t have access to the necessary information—is not our problem. If you can’t prove a claim, don’t expect us to take it as true.

There are some exceptions, like claims about one’s own health or occupation, but generally, you are expected to provide sufficient evidence for your claims before we take them seriously. This isn’t new; we’ve always done it this way. Maybe other places don’t follow this general rule, but that has long been the rule here.

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Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:11

It’s reasonable to dismiss a claim which the poster themselves said requires allegedly secret information to prove, information they weren’t privy to and can’t even use to substantiate their claim.

This of course means the claim is entirely bogus and made up from the beginning.

Shouldn’t be particularly hard to understand even for those not gifted with vast intellects, yes?

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

On those instances where ironclad evidence is actually provided, I have conceded the point the evidence actually supports. That it doesn’t convince me on other matters, or that I point out cases where the evidence is not ironclad and so don’t admit the underlying claim is true, doesn’t mean that I don’t admit the point supported by ironclad evidence once presented with that evidence.

The problem isn’t that we’re being unreasonable; the problem is the evidence provided often isn’t ironclad support for the claim being made, or that sometimes one claim being proven doesn’t actually prove the larger point being made. It isn’t my fault if the evidence you provided is lacking in some way.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:14

Bari Weiss wasn’t ironclad evidence of anything

Methinks you missed the point about that.

stop being so transparently facetious and deliberately misgendering people.

You missed the point here, too. “Facetious” yes, of course. I’m trolling, which is all you’ll get from me now on. “Misgendering” Kinda, it’s really a call back to your ignorance, to call it “misgendering” you’d have to think it wasn’t a reference to when you did that, which of course you know it is. (please note, I have no idea what gender you are, and absolutely don’t care) I also don’t think that matters at all, beyond that it showed you didn’t know what you were talking about.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

So, by admitting I was wrong, and being ignorant about a person who wasn’t central to my argument (which was explaining the rules of discussion here and pointing out that you hadn’t addressed someone’s argument), I have shown that I lack credibility to you?

Well, to be honest, I don’t think it matters if you think I’m credible, especially since you seem far more interested in spamming, trolling, and “owning the libs” than engaging in honest, productive (or at least interesting) discussions.

To be clear, not once did I ever say I knew anything about Bari Weiss, nor was anything I brought up in error relevant to my arguments, which was a criticism of the form of your arguments, not the accuracy of their premises.

Toom1275 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:16

So, by admitting I was wrong, and being ignorant about a person who wasn’t central to my argument (which was explaining the rules of discussion here and pointing out that you hadn’t addressed someone’s argument), I have shown that I lack credibility to you?

Matthew’s made it very clear that to his warped perceptions, honesty and credibility are mutually exclusive to him.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:10

That’s not how it works. You’re being facetious. Credibility of the source for a claim matters with regards to treating the claim as true or whether arguments need to be provided to dispute the truth of the claim. Credibility of someone asking for a source is entirely irrelevant. It’s also irrelevant when, as here, you try to use it as an excuse not to talk to someone who is talking to you.

This is why people say you argue in bad faith. You (apparently deliberately) misconstrue what others say to suit your needs and ignore the actual arguments made in favor of strawmen. I don’t often accuse people of being deliberate in these sorts of things, but this is such a blatant case that I can’t see how someone could make that mistake accidentally.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

… you even tried to claim yesterday with a straight face that publishing personal location info is not “Doxxing”.

You mean, publishing already-public information?

Yes, numerous government agencies gave directions on who to ban and yes that is a 1A violation, actually.

I will remind you, sir, that I previously asked,

Do you have a citation, perhaps binding precedent, to back up the assertion that “the government notifying a company of terms of service violations of a third party” is a first amendment violation? … and is it a violation of the company’s rights, or those of the third party?

You did not respond. Mr Masnick, however, did.

I cannot consider you a serious person unless you respond with your citations. And if you are not a serious person, you are spreading misinformation.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

You mean, publishing already-public information?

Doxxing not only can but usually involves information that is publicly available. The link to the definition is right there. Posting someone’s home address is the quintessential example of doxxing, that information is almost always publicly available in some form. Nonetheless exposing it to the internet in an easily accessible form is dangerous and frowned upon with good reason.

I will remind you, sir, that I previously asked,

First of all, I have no idea who “you” are, since you’re a coward, but why would I go link hunting for precedents for you when you won’t even read the wiki article that directly answered your first question? Case law on the subject is pretty easy to find and you can do your own googling, k, thx. If I give you a link you’ll just attack the source and I just don’t have time for that kinda goal-shifting. Not my first rodeo.

You did not respond. Mr Masnick, however, did.

I want to be clear: Masnick did not respond to crap. He found some cases and then blatantly misrepresented them. Billboards are not just speech but also a construction, and the two other cases actually make my point (the government was found at fault) but Masnick just makes up reasons why the actions of small town officials were somehow more egregious and threatening than the freaking FBI, DHS, CDC, and several congressional committees that were already threatening to investigate and regulate Twitter. This is just his standard tactic, totally make up a slanted version of the facts, pretend words mean other than what they do. Then he said I was in love with Musk which is just pro forma the standard at this point.

I cannot consider you a serious person unless you respond with your citations.

You’re an actual moron who won’t follow a link clearly posted, apparently doesn’t know what Doxxing is, and expects people to remember you when you’re posting anonymously. I give no shits who you think is serious or not.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

First of all, I have no idea who “you” are, since you’re a coward

Odd, since I mentioned that “I” had done something. Do you really need a specific handle?

but why would I go link hunting for precedents for you

Because I asked nicely, and you characterized your argument as a legal one?

you can do your own googling, k, thx. If I give you a link you’ll just attack the source and I just don’t have time for that kinda goal-shifting.

It’s your argument. You posted it knowing it would receive critical review in this forum. We wouldn’t be attacking the source – which would be a court. We would be comparing that judgement with other relevant court cases, precisely the way Masnick presented.

One side of this argument presented its case, citing relevant precedents. The other side essentially cried, “it ain’t so”. Which side presented the stronger case?

If you aren’t going to defend it, that’s on you. Until you do, I’ll continue considering your posts as un-serious.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

you’re just gaslighting and trying to pretend the plain meaning of words is not what they are.

Fuck, you even tried to claim yesterday with a straight face that publishing personal location info is not “Doxxing”.

It’s fucking hilarious that you first criticize them for something and then do the same thing in the following sentence. Not to mention in the rest of your fantasy-driven rant.

The location info was public, and it wasn’t personal, because a plane does not equate a person.

I used to like what you wrote, 20 years ago

I don’t even believe that you’re above the age of 20.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

It’s fucking hilarious that you first criticize them for something and then do the same thing in the following sentence

I mean, I can provide links to the definitions (and have), and unlike Masnick (and apparently you guys) I can actually read them. Providing personal location info is doxxing. Yes, ElonJet was doing that. It’s really not complicated, which is part of what makes the gaslighting so dumb.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Providing personal location info is doxxing.

Evidently you can’t read, because as multiple people have pointed out to you, including me, the location data is not personal. The fact that Musk owns the plane doesn’t make information about where it is personal. Ergo, it is not doxxing.

By the way, “ergo” means “therefore”.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

You’re simply wrong. It’s personal (it’s his personal plane) and it’s directly analagous to posting his home address (like planes, he has several) as it information that makes it a lot easier to target him in some way. It is a location (unlike homes, they move, which is why ELonjet also tells you WHEN they’re somewhere) that Musk or his family is considerably more likely to be found.

It is doxxing for the exact same reason posting his address is. I know you looney toons (including Masnick) don’t want this to be true but it is.

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Matthew Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“Pointing out” multiple times that “it’s not personal” does not change the fact that yes, it’s actually personal info. You guys tell yourselves lots of dumb lies, it’s kinda weird.

More than that it’s his personal plane it’s “personal” in that it is decent indication of where his person is likely to be (and vulnerable). That’s WHY doxxing is so discouraged. It is exactly analogous to providing his home address and dangerous for all the same reasons. The only difference between that and his house is that it moves…which is why the doxxer provides both spatial and temporal coordinates.

“Point out” all you want. Definitely personal info, definitely doxxing.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

More than that it’s his personal plane it’s “personal” in that it is decent indication of where his person is likely to be (and vulnerable).

That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo. Did you miss the point someone else made about planes not necessarily being related to people, using Taylor Swift as an example?

What am I talking about, of course you missed that point.

It is exactly analogous to providing his home address and dangerous for all the same reasons.

Except he doesn’t live in an airplane, dingus. It’s not at all the same.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

Ignoring all of that…

If Elon is so paranoid about Chinese kill squads, Russian assassination attempys and Mossad, all he has to do is…

… FLY FUCKING BUSINESS. And hire better security.

The only entities who can make use of the publicly-available info the ADSB provides are corporations, organized crime cartels and nationstates. And I’m very sure corps do not want to be known publicly as those assholes who shot down a plane for petty purposes and any organized crime cartel big enough to put together a hit squad (or an assassin) would prefer to take him out privately and quietly.

…Which leaves us with the third option. Git gud Elon, don’t suck up to people who can and will dispose of you once your worth to them is finished. Oh, and don’t simp for dictators and authcap politicians. At least ypu would have ONE SIDE willing to not leave you to die.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo. Did you miss the point someone else made about planes not necessarily being related to people, using Taylor Swift as an example?

It’s just not fucking true. He owns those planes, they basically only contain him or his friends or family or are empty, same as his homes.

Except he doesn’t live in an airplane, dingus. It’s not at all the same.

Irrelevant, dumbass. It’s personal information (yes) that would be useful in targeting him.

You’re just making up reasons why the definition “doxxing ” doesn’t apply and none of them are true.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

He owns those planes, they basically only contain him or his friends or family or are empty

You just gave three reasons for why the location of the plane isn’t personal. Well done.

It’s personal information

No, and you just laid out why it isn’t.

You’re just making up reasons why the definition “doxxing ” doesn’t apply and none of them are true.

And you’re making up reasons for why it applies.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You just gave three reasons for why the location of the plane isn’t personal. Well done.

You mean how a home address isn’t personal? Like you’re literally just making shit up, here. I am not always home, but it damn well is personal and is doxxing. Ditto if you had a constant location on my car. Ditto on Musk’s plane. How fucking dumb are you?

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Anonymous Coward says:

To all you white supremacists claiming that the Babylon Bee is hilarious…

This is a very basic example of what proper comedy is like. It’s not the best at it, but it TRIES to have a joke first, and, more importantly, it PUNCHES UP.

Elon is a rich White South African who most likely inherited his initial seed money (blood EMERALDS, from his DAD) and got lucky with tech companies despite NOT having a degree in ANYTHING for DECADES. The Youtube content creator is not.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re:

There’s different types of comedy. The lowest is the sort that bullies the weak and powerless, and most people grow out of that once they realise that their playground taunts are actually harmful to their targets. Conservatives often seem to be types who never mentally progressed through puberty, so they still find that stuff funny.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

You’re not worth the energy on this claim. Believe what you want; just recognize that you haven’t proven your claim, and you have the burden of proof on that, not me.

Also, that is a clear misinterpretation of what I said. Either an undisputed source, a source with no bias either way regarding the specific claim, or a source with a bias against the claim they’re being used to support would all work. How those biases line up with my own is entirely irrelevant.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re:

Hrm….randomly calls people racist without any basis, claims the richest man in the world is obviously just a lucky idiot and then comments on a site he obviously doesn’t know anything about. Yeah, that all tracks.

This video is legitimately awful, you just like that he’s emphatic, over emotional, and agrees with you.

And BB, btw, is fighting the left dominant media culture (and censorship) which is about as “punching up” as you can get. But perspective is not your deal, huh?

But man, you guys sure are mad that banning them got Musk to buy the pace, aren’t ya? Whew!

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

And BB, btw, is fighting the left dominant media culture

It’s funny how assholes like you think the marginalized people targeted by outlets like the Babylon Bee have more power than they actually do. I mean, trans people are literally less than 1% of the overall population and still struggle with receiving basic tolerance from society, yet the Babylon Bee treats trans people as if they’re the most powerful cabal of people in the country.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Gee, I dunno…

There’s your continued use of racist language, spouting of “conservative” talking points, defending a Racist White South African who all but admits he simps for dictators, authcap politicians and whatnot…

The admission you’re here to “own the libs”, aka harass the BestNetTech team, complete with gaslighting…

At least one implied violent threat…

Admission that you thought January 6 was not an insurrection…

Yoy are not only a disgusting person, you support what the FBI defines as a domestic terror movement.

You and your ilk deserve far, far worse that what the libs think you deserve.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Taylor Lorenz

That is, people who are advocating violence or doxxing people Musk doesn’t know?

Taylor Lorenz (who is a militant twit, btw) was suspended for doxxing other people, not Musk. I’m sure there others, but I just find that statement pretty funny.

Also, this youtuber is just awful, a typical Lefty-SJW type and his arguments are not based on much and don’t make a lot of sense…but are projected with a lot of emotion…it’s fundamentally emotional arguments, not logic based. (I spent a couple minutes skimming, there’s no way I’m listening to this crap for an hour)

That you find this insightful really doesn’t say great things about you and also shows just how extremely left-wing you’ve become.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

I have to watch something for an hour to meat your approval?

No, but saying “His arguments aren’t based on much and they don’t make sense” followed by “I didn’t really watch it” just makes you sound dumb.

Also, calling someone a “lefty-SJW type” isn’t a refutation.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

He doesn’t need to be smart to lay out a timeline of documentable events.

Like the rest of you, that basically boils down to whining: “Musk bought Twitter and isn’t doing what I would do!”

Well yes, to some extent that was the point. What liberals were doing with it was Orwellian and awful.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

I mean if you squint, turn your head and smash it against the wall a few times it kinda was, after all those dastardly liberals had the audacity to not head over to the conservative cesspit alternative-social media platforms so that they could be harassed, drastically reducing the value of those platforms to the conservatives infesting them and all but forcing them to go to the platforms that the nefarious liberals were using.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Once again, it’s still censorship if twitter if only one of many outlets (all of whom have the same policies, and the one outlet that didn’t (Parler) got nuked in a weekend. Which actually would fit your warped definition of “censorship” which still isn’t the definition.

It’s still Orwellian and Awful, too.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

all of whom have the same policies

What does it tell you about those services that they all see policies against bigoted speech, harassment, and other objectionable speech/behavior as a net positive rather than a net negative?

the one outlet that didn’t (Parler) got nuked in a weekend

Parler still exists. Don’t blame liberals because Parler couldn’t garner a sizeable userbase or because it fucked itself over by ignoring moderation reports. They didn’t make Parler adopt “conservative-friendly” policies or ignore all those reports.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:8

What does it tell you about those services that they all see policies against bigoted speech, harassment, and other objectionable speech/behavior as a net positive rather than a net negative?

I think it means they’re all run by a narrow range of people who mostly went to same schools and live in the same 2 or 3 cities.

Parler still exists

You’re blaming the victim for not dying when you stabbed him?

Don’t blame liberals because Parler couldn’t garner a sizeable userbase

I am, directly. In fact Parler’s userbase was EXPLODING (mostly due to outrage over Twitter censroship) when all the tech companies colluded to kill it off in a weekend. They very nearly succeeded. It survived, sorta, but wasn’t functional for a couple months and by then all the momentum was gone.

Political suppression achieved!

Fuck you, Stephen, personally. Not only are you ignorant and have the wrong definitions of words but now you’re being disengenuous as well. People like you (by which I mean your repressive vindictiveness) are why it was crucial that Musk buy Twitter.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

You’re blaming the victim for not dying when you stabbed him?

Liberals didn’t make Parler stop paying attention to moderation reports. Liberals didn’t make Parler adopt rules and policies that led it to become a right-wing shitpit. Show me where liberals made those things happen. Go ahead. I’ll wait.

Parler’s userbase was EXPLODING … when all the tech companies colluded to kill it off in a weekend

Three things.

  1. Unless I missed something, neither Apple nor Google are legally obligated to allow any app into their respective app stores, and that includes an app with policies that violate the app store policies set by Apple and Google.
  2. Prove they colluded with each other to kill Parler.
  3. Even if the userbase was “exploding”, like pretty much any other right-wing Twitter wannabe, Parler was always going to hit a ceiling when conservatives finally realized all the liberals had stayed on Twitter and Parler was just an echo chamber where “owning the libs” was meaningless. (The same is true of Gab and Truth Social: They might have had some initial excitement, but they were always going to hit a ceiling because nobody wants to be on a platform where the owners think the “Worst People” Problem isn’t a problem at all.)

It survived, sorta, but wasn’t functional for a couple months and by then all the momentum was gone.

Don’t blame liberals for Parler being a half-assed kitbashed platform behind the scenes. That’s on the Parler team.

Fuck you, Stephen, personally.

You can’t afford my asking price and I wouldn’t let you even if you could.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:10

Liberals didn’t make Parler stop paying attention to moderation reports

Very literally, we don’t think they should have to. You’re saying it’s Parler’s fault they weren’t following the same abhorrent censorship policies Twitter was doing and people were fleeing to Parler over?

Gee man, it’s almost like that’s the whole point.

They did it in a weekend, 5 or 6 different companies, collusion is obvious. And it IS illegal, actually, but yes proving it in court would be hard. But don’t go pretending it didn’t happen.

And this is why Musk had to buy Twitter. Pretty directly to say fuck you to you and yours and your entire worldview. Because yes, BB should be allowed to make jokes that offend you, actually.

And that’s why you hate him. Not because of any the pretend stuff you say about him, but because he told you “No.”

You need to be told “no” a lot more often.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

Parler died in a very predictable manner: not upholding THEIR end of the contract when AWS politely asked them to do so, and was, at least publicly, going the extra mile to help them uphold THEIR end of the contract.

But you go keep believing that Google et al conspired to keep that Russian asset down. I’ll wait for the evidence to appear.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:12

You’re victim shaming. (and making some shit up to boot) No they didn’t violate their contract, Amazon just made some shit up, demanded censor the way the good liberals wanted them to, and then pulled out of the contract.

Again, this is why Musk had to buy twitter. To tell you to fuck off.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

they didn’t violate their contract,

[citation needed]

Amazon just made some shit up,

[citation needed]

demanded censor the way the good liberals wanted them to

[citation needed]

Seriously, son, you can at least provide some credible evidence if you’re going to make claims of fact like that.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

https://www.bestnettech.com/2021/01/14/judge-not-impressed-parlers-attempt-to-force-amazon-to-put-it-back-online/

I’d also like to add that perjury is a serious crime, and that claiming the Seattle Courts are biased against “conservatives” hold very little sway. Seattle would LOVE to have something to pin on Amazon legally, so…

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:14

The contract said Amazon could pull out. Parler would have to prove that collusion happened which is nearly impossible. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

I’d also like to add that perjury is a serious crime

It’s a crime at least but what drugs are you taking? Pretty sure most courts on the West Coast are biased against conservatives but that’s an opinion (except that it could easily be shown with case stats) and not really possible to perjure about and also I am not sworn into a court at this moment. So fucking huh?

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:21

Regarding the definition of doxxing, others have pointed out why it didn’t support your claims. Moreover, different people have different definitions for the term. Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. It’s not that your evidence was ignored; they just gave reasons why that evidence is unconvincing for them, at least as to all your claims on the issue.

I should also point out that, beyond noting the issues as to whether that definition of “doxxing” applies to @ElonJet, or pointing out that other definitions of doxxing exist, I’ve barely argued with you about your definition of “doxxing”. It isn’t that important to my own arguments.

This also doesn’t change the fact that people are expected to provide evidence for their claims before they are taken even remotely seriously here. Sometimes, “taken seriously” means pointing out why one assertion doesn’t support your larger claim. Other times, it means pointing out why the evidence provided doesn’t support your claims at all. Still other times, it involves pointing out flaws with the source you gave that undermine its credibility (at least on the relevant topic). And then finally, it may involve fully conceding the point and moving on to other things. That the last one is rarer doesn’t mean it never happens. That it has never happened when you tried to present evidence just means you failed to present ironclad evidence for the entirety of your claim.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:25

I’ll be sure to tell her to do so if I ever see her.

In the meantime, the source of my claims is this thread, as I specifically said. If you have any examples of something said about Ms. Weiss in this thread that had anything to do with doxxing or @ElonJet, go ahead and point it out. You’re making the positive claim, so you have the burden of proof here.

But that’s just if you want to be taken seriously, which you clearly don’t. And hey! If you just want to do a comedy routine where you talk to Bari and I tell you I’ll pass it on to her, I’m game!

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

No they didn’t violate their contract

Except Amazon told them multiple(four IIRC) times that they did.

Amazon just made some shit up

No, the Terms Of Acceptable Use policy for AWS actually has a section that Parler violated.

demanded censor the way the good liberals wanted them to

If you rent someone else’s property, you’re meant to follow their rules. This shouldn’t be too hard to understand, even for you.

then pulled out of the contract.

When someone doesn’t follow the rules, that’s what happens.

Again, this is why Musk had to buy twitter. To tell you to fuck off.

Well, he does seem like the petty type.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

The contract definitely didn’t say “moderate your site exactly how we want you to moderate it”

It doesn’t have to and Amazon never told Parler to moderate the site exactly how they wanted them to moderate it. They basically told them:
You have content that incites violence. That’s against the Acceptable Use policy. Please remove it“.
Parler failed to do that, and was consequently booted from the platform.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:16

I’d also like to add that AWS was also more than willing to help them with the moderation process, and, as per the contract, helped Parler transfer their data to their chosen provider once the Seattle court threw out Parler’s case.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:18

They gave them 24 hours – after months of refusing to comply with terms of service.

If you’re being remotely honest about your ideas here and not just deliberately omitting context that proves you wrong, the full text of the letter sent to Parler from Amazon can be read here:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/01/09/amazon-web-services-gives-parler-24-hour-notice-that-it-will-suspend-services-to-the-company/

Nothing in that letter is out of order, IMO. I’ll agree that it was short notice, but there were obvious mitigating circumstances that Amazon didn’t want to be involved with. If Parler were depending on a single provider to remain online, didn’t have a disaster recovery plan in case of, say, an outage at AWS, and refused to comply with that provider’s rules…? That’s on them no matter what notice was given. Depending on the contract, they might not even have had to give them any notice at all, legally, and there’s no moral imperative to keep customers that cause problems for your own business.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:19

There’s no point in trying to dissect this with you further, you’re just going to pretend everything AWS did was reasonable and OF COURSE Parler should be forced to censor how others like, and I think it’s dramatically the opposite.

Suffice to say, I don’t think my ISP should get to control what I say on the internet. (netneutral, right?) I also don’t think my water company should get to decide if I can have crazy orgies (or KKK meetings, for that matter) or they’ll suspend my service. No, not even if they put some clause to that effect in the contract because they’re the only game in town.

It’s all just wholly illegitimate.

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:20

you’re just going to pretend everything AWS did was reasonable and OF COURSE Parler should be forced to censor how others like

When they’re using someone else’s property for their platform, they need to follow the rules. End of story.

Suffice to say, I don’t think my ISP should get to control what I say on the internet.

As usual, your analogies show how clueless you are. Common carriers have to follow different rules than companies that aren’t. What Amazon did to Parler is the equivalent of asking a customer to leave a restaurant for being a jackass. Completely within reason.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:20

“OF COURSE Parler should be forced to censor how others like”

If they wish to continue using someone else’s property? Yes. Why do you not like private property rights?

“Suffice to say, I don’t think my ISP should get to control what I say on the internet.”

You won’t find anyone here who disagrees with the idea that ISPs should be considered common carriers with no influence over what’s said, just as you won’t find anyone who wants to censor their phone calls.

But, ISPs and forums, social media, etc. are completely different things.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:22

And yet, regular commenters on this site⁠—including myself⁠—will openly and legitimately defend the right of conservative halfwits like Tucker Carlson to exercise their right to free speech even though we may disagree with what they’re saying. Twitter choosing to ban someone for saying bigoted bullshit isn’t “fascist shit” unless you actually believe being banned from Twitter is the exact same thing as being denied your right to speak freely.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:22

Should me water company get to dumbp me cuz of what I say on the internet?

No, because the water company is a public utility. Social media platforms aren’t public utilities. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

The irony here is you guys LIKE fascist shit, when it goes your way.

We’ve defended people who were actually censored even though we greatly disagreed with them multiple times, and we have said that moderation of content we agree with is not censorship. There have been times where we agreed with moderation of content we liked and disagreed with moderation of content we disliked.

So no, your claim has no basis in reality.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:17

IIRC, they were originally willing to help, but that went out the window after Jan 6th and the CEO started talking about how they’d not take any responsibility. The fact is, people started to threaten to leave AWS if Parler remained there, and they chose the other customers. They have no reason to help a customer that’s exiting in bad faith.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

The level required of a forum post is the level being requested by the other users of that forum. You might be more used to posting in forums where bare assertions are accepted without evidence, but the audience here tends to be more generally aware of what’s happening and will request proof of something that seems incorrect, such as your assertions here.

Most are honest enough to engage with facts that differ from previous knowledge, but people like you rarely offer it. You just make bare assertions, then instead of either offering proof as requested or admitting you don’t have any, you start whining about how everyone’s mean to you and how you don’t need to prove what you say. Which leads to the rest of use, quite correctly it seems, concluding that you’re a child and a liar.

You’re welcome to provide and proof contrary to that if it exists, but I somehow doubt you will.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:14

The level required of a forum post is the level being requested by the other users of that forum. You might be more used to posting in forums where bare assertions are accepted without evidence, but the audience here tends to be more generally aware of what’s happening and will request proof of something that seems incorrect, such as your assertions here.

You lot are a bunch of mouth breathing antifa idiots for the most part. No proof will be considered sufficient and you will shift goal posts as required.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15

Indeed, when the facts are against you, invent a conspiracy and resort to childish name calling. If you hallucinate hard enough you’ll be right no matter the evidence in front of everyone else?

Is not mentally progressing past puberty an actual requirement for your type, or do you just revert to that state when people disagree with you? It seems to be a common affliction – merely asking you to link to where the claims you read are written seem to be enough for you to regress to a pupal state for some reason.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:19

Nothing you say is in good faith.

Why is it always projection with you fuckers?

Parler still exists, ergo, they were not canceled. You can twist and turn how ever you want, but unless you concede that Parler still exists, you are not arguing in good faith that they were ever canceled.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:22

And those conspiracies are typicall small ones. Have you ever been a project manager or a group leader? It’s hard enough to get three people to agree to do one thing in a coördinated fashion.

That’s the largest problem with a great many conspiracy theories: They insist that a few hundred (or few thousand) people can work together to carry out complex plans with several different moving parts and objectives while keeping everything a secret. That isn’t to say large conspiracies don’t exist⁠—but if they do, they don’t always work as planned, and they never stay secret forever. I mean, look at that court case about the students who were expelled over all that racist bullshit they made: As more students were clued in on the existence of the secret Instagram account, the chances of the account being exposed to the general public rose exponentially.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:26

Who is Jezebelle, and why should I care?

In all seriousness, rather than just name-dropping every source that has (or at least that you perceive to have) a liberal bias and act as if it’s something I actually read or take as a reliable source, maybe consider that I don’t fit the image of me you have in your head and actually don’t treat any source as reliable for every single claim but should be treated on a case-by-case basis.

Look, I’m not even asking for a source here. Maybe I just forgot and need help jogging my memory. You could at least be a little more specific than just putting “conspiracy” and “Clintons” in the same sentence. (Though, technically, you didn’t even do that much.) It’s not even entirely clear to me whether you mean a conspiracy by the Clintons or a conspiracy the Clintons believe happened that they weren’t a part of. Like I said, I need more details first before I can say anything about this.

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WarioBarker (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:15 Pot, meet Kettle

You lot are a bunch of mouth breathing antifa idiots for the most part.

Protip: “antifa” is short for “anti-fascist/fascism”, therefore part of your mudslinging is calling us idiots for hating fascism. Given how often you RWNJ MAGAts use the term against those you hate, it says a lot more about you than it does about the Repugnant Cultural Others you hate solely for being Not Cis Hetero Conservative “Christian” White Guys.

No proof will be considered sufficient and you will shift goal posts as required.

Given your previous use of QAnon-esque phrases, your next line will be “Do your own research.”

(Seriously, why is it always projection with you people?)

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:16

Protip: “antifa” is short for “anti-fascist/fascism”

Y’know, I honestly thought we were done with that sorta preschool logic.

Protip: North Korea calls itself a “Democratic Republic”, and it happens to be anything but. Only children think someone is automatically what they label themselves as.

IN reality Antifa are modern Brown Shirts — tho more commie than fascist. But by your logic, of course, the NAZIs were socialists and it’s illegitimate to claim they were anything else.

See how dumbfuck stupid that line of reasoning is? Why do you shitheads keep on trying to use it?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:17

Antifa are modern Brown Shirts

If any group of people are “modern Brown Shirts”, it’s right-wing groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers who go around protestng queer-friendly events while openly carrying guns. I don’t recall any huge Antifa protests at CPAC where they were actively searching for an excuse to commit violence.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:19

Don’t recall antifa starting any violence, huh? Those sure are words.

How many aftifa vs how man Proud Boys are pleading guilty, being tried, or have been found guilty for seditious conspiracy because of their actions on Jan 6?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:21

But pointing to unequal treatment under the law is a funny thing to gloat about.

Who is being treated unequal under the law?

And why didn’t you answer the question, let me re-phrase it so a simpleton like you can understand:

How many antifa have been charged with crimes relating to Jan 6, and how many right wing groups such as Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, etc, have been charged with crimes relating to Jan 6?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:24

Why to change the subject you fucking asshole.

Well it wasn’t that, it was pointing out how fucking irrelevant asking about Antifa and Jan 6th was.

Would like to compare how many people BLM/antifa killed to Proud boys?

And this is why you are constantly flagged you fucking asshole!

So hateful

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:23

How many Proud boys (which damnit, makes me sound like I like them and I don’t) burned down buildings during BLM riots?

Irrelevant. How many avowed antifascists have been charged with crimes relating to the insurrection, how many people from right-wing groups such as the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers have been charged with crimes relating to the insurrection, and how do those numbers compare to one another?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:24

Irrelevant.

Well no, you were making a sophomoric attempt to cherry-pick an incredibly narrow selection of data, and I was just doing the same in reverse. Not nearly as narrow, actually.

Let’s do a more fair comparison? How many people did proud boys vs antifa/BLM kill in 2020-21? (George Floyd to 1/6). For bonus points we can throw in shootings of unarmed people by capitol police if you like.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:25

Well no, you were making a sophomoric attempt to cherry-pick an incredibly narrow selection of data

Well yes, we are trying to get you to admit that it wasn’t antifa, but it was right wing groups such as the proud boys who tried to disrupt congress for the sake of installing a dictator that lost his election.

Tell me, when was the last time anybody calling themselves anfifa tried to overthrow the government like your right wing groups tried to do?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:27

still not nearly anywhere near as dangerous as antifa, as clear by plainly available stats

By all means, show us the stats on avowed antifascists committing violence against either people or property.

(I’ll remind you that “antifa” is short for antifascism. While several antifascist groups do use “antifa” in their names, there is no nationally organized group of any kind that is known as “Antifa”.)

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:19

I’m complaining your lack of reading comprehension doesn’t cause you to agree.

So you’re complaining that a problem (that I don’t actually have, and which you have not demonstrated) fails to cause me to agree with you? How is that even remotely sensible to you?

Again, that you think it says one thing and we disagree with you doesn’t mean we lack reading comprehension or are being unreasonable. It could be that multiple interpretations are valid, that your interpretation is wrong, or that we disagree on what the information actually entails.

Go asks the NYPs most famous reporter. [sic]

I’m bad with names, and someone’s fame has approximately zero correlation with the likelihood I’ve ever heard of them. I honestly have no idea who you are talking about. I also fail to see the relevance.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:21

I still have no idea why you’re talking to Bari here now, but whatever.

For the record, though, I really am bad with names. Never had a good memory for them. I constantly have to look up my cousin’s name who I’ve known for years. I’m much better with faces, though certainly not perfect.

Also, for an indication of how little fame correlates with my knowledge of someone, I didn’t know who Michael Jackson was until after he died, and I didn’t know who OJ Simpson was until years after his acquittal. It just isn’t my thing.

Not that it matters since you’re talking to Bari, not me, but just thought I’d let you know for the fun of it!

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Of course I do, so does everyone. What the fuck does that even mean?

Oh….nevermind, I get it, you’re trying to call me a date rapist or something, right?

No Stephen, as an exercise, why did you do that? Did you have any reason to suspect that? Has anything I said beyond a rhetorical “get fucked” dealt with sex at all? Do you know anything about me personally at all? Do you even know that I’m male?

Or are you a pathetic little shit lashing out because you lost an argument?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Yep, that’s precisely what it is. It’s a wonderfully specific way to find out who the assholes are, and then remove them. People who aren’t assholes laugh at the joke; people who are, whine, and get nuked.

Works great, and means that nobody has to deal with chucklefucks like yourself.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

With techs massive pullback in hiring and expenses over the last few months enjoy it while you can. Mike is a year or two away from sucking dick for money or giving a shotgun a blowjob.

People like Mike live and die by the borrowing rate. Everyone who gives him money does so based on if that money will yield a profitable return. Its been years but the formula works out wit the borrowing rate in the denominator. When the prime rate was damn near zero money was thrown around without a care. Now that its going back to its historic norm of 7-9% Mike is fucking done for.

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James Burkhardt (profile) says:

Re:

Some More news makes video showing musk saying one thing and doing another. its an hour long, and includes numerous sources.

Mike Bennett: This is all emotional and not logical!
Also Matthew Bennet: I literally just skimmed the video because I can’t be bothered and so have no reasonable basis to judge the validity of the arguments
Also Matthew Bennet: Taylor Lorenz, who was banned after discovering the threat to ‘lil X’ occured after Musk’s security tried to run from a collision and inquired why he blamed the incident on ElonJet, proves Musk was consistent. No need to question why the look back and ban policy wasn’t site wide.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Hey, dumbass:

1) you’re still attacking the source. I am not in any way obligated to provide a source you would prefer. I’m quite sure every source you prefer. NYT is known to have a liberal bias, so what?

2)I provided a source, a valid source, in fact. If I provide a different source, you’ll just attack that one instead, and I am under no obligation to let you waste my time. Ultimately it’s just a bunch of links back to the twitter files, anyway, so any objection over “bias” is even dumber than normal.

Did you even read this thread at all? Guess not.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

1) you’re still attacking the source. I am not in any way obligated to provide a source you would prefer.

You are if you want to be taken seriously here.

I’m quite sure every source you prefer. NYT is known to have a liberal bias, so what?

  1. No, you clearly don’t.
  2. No, it isn’t.
  3. The point is whether your source is biased in a way that makes the specific claim you’re making unreliable. If you cited NYT for something anti-liberal, any alleged liberal bias would be irrelevant. Similarly, if you cited the NYP for something anti-conservative and not anti-Twitter, NYP’s bias favoring conservatives and against Twitter would also be irrelevant. NYP isn’t like PV, which has a proven track record of always being actively, intentionally deceitful rather than merely biased.

2) I provided a source, a valid source, in fact.

You calling it a valid source doesn’t make it a credible source.

If I provide a different source, you’ll just attack that one instead, and I am under no obligation to let you waste my time.

  1. You didn’t even try.
  2. And we are under no obligation to accept your claims as true based only on your say-so and a known-to-be-unreliable source.
  3. I was merely making the pragmatic observation that, if you have multiple sources for the same info, and one is considered unreliable by the target audience (rightly or wrongly), it’s less trouble to just find another source more likely to be considered reliable by that audience. I was suggesting you light a candle rather than curse the darkness. If you consider that a waste of time, fine. You are free to reject my advice.

Ultimately it’s just a bunch of links back to the twitter files, anyway, so any objection over “bias” is even dumber than normal.

If so, then:

  1. You already linked to them in the past, and their source wasn’t attacked then, so that already proves that providing a different source wouldn’t lead to anyone attacking the source. You just debunked your own accusation.
  2. To the extent the article is just links to and excerpts from the Twitter Files, we have already explained to you why they don’t actually support your claims. We don’t need to explain that again just because you provided a different hyperlink to the exact same source and information.

And I think that second point needs to be expanded further, because it’s just completely baffling to me. You already provided the underlying source cited in that article before, but more directly. We already addressed that particular evidence then in great detail, never once disputing the veracity of the contents or where they were alleged to come from; it just didn’t back up your claims. Now, rather than linking to it directly again or, better yet, providing a completely different source that actually backs up your claims, you provided a link to an article known to have a bias against Twitter and in favor of conservatives not for anything new but to indirectly source the exact same evidence that was already provided and addressed here. If we weren’t convinced by the original source that your claims are true, why the hell would we be even remotely convinced by an indirect citation to the exact same source, only now, the URL you used this time goes to a biased source, making it even less likely to be convincing if there is any change at all?

If X didn’t convince us, why would citing Y that basically just links to X be any more convincing? Like, what even is your logic there?

Did you even read this thread at all? Guess not.

I actually did. I even addressed most of the points you brought up here in various other comments, many of which you then responded to. That I didn’t repeat all of my points in each of my posts in this thread has more to do with not wanting to repeat myself needlessly too much rather than any lack of reading I did.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Taylor shared the notice she got for why she was banned. It was not for doxxing. It was for linking to other social media during that 2 day period where that was banned. Then she was let back online.

It had nothing to do with doxxing.

Also, she didn’t dox anyone, but you’ve already shown you don’t know what doxing means (or more accurately you know what it means buy you change your definition based on who is doing what).

Did you yell about Elon doxing the guy in the car?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

She’s a known liar, there’s no reason to think that was the actual notice she was suspended over.

Also, she didn’t dox anyone

She definitely, 100% without question doxxed the person who runs Libs of TikTok. I believer there some others before that but that’s the most notable and recent one. Straight up attempted to ruin her life. Got her fired (but now she’s just running the account full time, she’s doing fine….but she also didn’t have an option not to do that)

Did you yell about Elon doxing the guy in the car?

For one thing, that’s trying to solve a crime which is a perfectly legitimate reason to share such information, but also not doxxing. It was a pic of him after the fact, not information that could be used to target him in the future.

How do yo guys live like this? It’s as if words have no actual meaning at all.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Hypocrisy is overrated

People like to point out when someone’s being hypocritical, but none of this shit would be much better if Elon had accurately told us what was coming. And really, we’ve long known that Elon was not a reliable information source. It seems that many people who rise to power—like CEOs and politicians—just don’t care about being seen as hypocritical. It makes me think there’s maybe not much point in analyzing whether they are, and we’d be better off looking at the policies on their own.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:

They really didn’t. That was just another media hit-job trying to pretend 2 days of data established a trend. You’ll note the story went away real quick.

But I want to be clear here: “racial slurs” are not the worst thing. Partly because free speech is more important than you being offended, partly because folks like you will call nearly anything a “racial slur” if you can use it mute speech. (see the first part) Pretending the “OK” hand sign is a white supremacist thing is probably the most hilarious example of that. Since everyone uses it, you get to call anyone a racist.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

folks like you will call nearly anything a “racial slur” if you can use it mute speech

Nah, not really. F⸻t isn’t a racial slur, after all. (It’s a queerphobic one.)

Pretending the “OK” hand sign is a white supremacist thing is probably the most hilarious example of that.

Ironically or not, they still adopted the handsign as a symbolic gesture.

Since everyone uses it, you get to call anyone a racist.

Nah, that depends largely on context⁠—specifically, a political context. Someone flashing the symbol during a keynote speech at CPAC would be a much more clear usage of the handsign as a gesture to white supremacists than, say, someone at a retail store flashing the handsign at a co-worker some distance away to indicate things are okay.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Ironically or not, they still adopted the handsign as a symbolic gesture.

I’ve seen liberals claim that, but little evidence that it’s true. Regardless that still doesn’t make it racist….if neonazis drink water and I drink water that doesn’t make me a neo-nazi.

that depends largely on context⁠—specifically, a political context. Someone flashing the symbol during a keynote speech at CPAC would be a much more clear usage of the handsign

I’m really glad you stated that so clearly. So your “context” is that someone disagrees with you politically and they use the OK symbol it’s a white supremacy symbol. Perf, absolutely spot on. Chef’s kiss

Yeah, so as I was saying, and you illustrated, literally everyone uses it and it’s just a dumb excuse to pretend someone you don’t like is racist. (it happened with Rittenhouse, in fact, and he appeared to just be saying “I’m doing OK” and several outlets reported it as a white supremacy gesture)

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

your “context” is that someone disagrees with you politically and they use the OK symbol it’s a white supremacy symbol

Don’t blame me because white supremacists are largely, if not exclusively, associated with the right wing of American politics and the political party what represents that wing.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Actually, he did exactly that. He said that the people who were banned from Twitter for “conservative” viewpoints would be allowed back on. Ignoring for the moment that nothing of the sorts was happening to begin with and Twitter was documented as pandering to them, just think for a moment what that means.

Nobody was being “deplatformed” for espousing traditionally conservative viewpoints like tax reform or reducing spending. No matter the excuses, virtually every documented account boiled down to homophobic, transphobic or racist attacks as the reason for them being suspended.

So, when Musk said he was going to reinstate accounts, he was explicitly saying he wanted to flood the site with hate.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Literally nothing you just said is true. Lots and lots of just plain normal conservative commentators were shadowbanned into the ground. Quite a few actual medical doctors who were posting covid and vaccine “misinformation” (much of which turned out to be utterly true) were deplatformed. Heck, a lot of journalists got suspended for sharing the Biden Laptop story…..which was true.

And there’s nothing “phobic” about pointing out that a biological man is indeed a man and that has practical consequences. There’s all sorts reasons to discuss that fact that have nothing to do with disapproving of someone choosing to live as the other gender (I don’t). It matters for women’s sports, abused women’s shelters, and prison’s a great deal.

I’m sue you think (pretend) “hate speech” is some clear cut thing but that’s just cuz you’re an insane lefty. In reality what is and isn’t “hate speech” constantly shifts according to your insane fads and is routinely (I’d argue mostly) used as a political weapon.

So no people weren’t banned just for “hate speech”, even by your definition, and for that matter, yes, an awful lot of you call “hate speech” (presumably everything a conservative says, ever) absolutely should be allowed. Which it will be. Suck it. But that doesn’t actually mean there’s all this hate flowing everywhere, merely that people are allowed to say things you don’t like.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

First off, the NY Post is a Murdoch outlet that has a personal beef with Twitter because their account was briefly suspended under the hacked materials rule. There’s reasons to say that Twitter made the wrong call there, but if they’re all you have as a citation it’s unlikely to be factually based.

The trick is to find citations from a reliable source with no personal investment in the story, not the first Google result you find. Do such things exist, or do you only have the word of a tabloid belonging to an organisation known to lack journalistic integrity and a motive to claim oppression where none exists?

To provide an example to the contrary, this is what more neutral and reliable sources had to say on the subject in the past:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/twitter-algorithm-right-wing-news-bias-b1943170.html

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/22/22740703/twitter-algorithm-right-wing-amplification-study

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Matthew Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Right, so you attack the source. It doesn’t matter that the article cites tons of things with links that’s easy to verify, you’re gonna attack it anyway. And if all the rags lefty enough so satisfy you (the independent and Verge are both HARD left so you calling them “neutral” is fucking hilarious) you’ll just pretend there is no evidence.

This is why it’s never worth it to actually bother to look up a link when a leftist screeches “source!” Theg’ll just ad hominem and goal shift

Please note neither of your links have anything to do with topic at had which was lots conservatives got banned or shadowbanned for reasons that have nothing to do with supposed “hate speech”

(Btw did it ever occur to anyone that “right wing” ideas spead well just because they were logical, made sense, and as with the covid stuff eventually proved to be right? Nah, of course not)

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

so you attack the source

Your source lacks credibility and has a vindictive reason to offer up a story attacking Twitter. Forgive us for not taking it as the word of God~.

did it ever occur to anyone that “right wing” ideas spead well just because they were logical, made sense, and as with the covid stuff eventually proved to be right?

And which specific ideas are those, again?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Your source lacks credibility and has a vindictive reason to offer up a story attacking Twitter.

So you’re attacking the source. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Not the actual info therein (all verified). There’s a reason ad hominem is invalid.

Could have pulled up a dozen other sites saying the same thing but you and he would have just attacked those too. (Yeah, they’re mostly conservative sites cuz liberal news just refuses to cover the matter, again that’s pretty routine these days) (PaulT cited the Verge as “neutral”, Holy crap) Which means there’s no reason for me to even bother.

And which specific ideas are those, again?

Yeah, sure, I’ll play:

–Mask mandates and lockdowns had barely any effect and had huge costs and harmed children that weren’t justifiable. (keep in mind Oct’21 liberals still refused to admit this was true)

–Covid vaccine certainly did reduce the deathrate in older individuals (questionable the younger they are) but did not prevent infection and had a negligible to nonexistent effect on transmission rates, meaning you have basically no justification in forcing others to get it. (keep in mind Oct’21 liberals still refused to admit this was true)

–Use whatever pronouns you want, but no, men still can’t get pregnant.

–It’s just fine to use “mom” and “pregnant woman” and “birthing person” is dumb and orwellian af.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

What’s being attacked here is that, because the source is so heavily biased, it is not a credible source for the information contained within it. That doesn’t mean that the NY Post is wrong; only that it is insufficient as a source.

Basically, there is reason to believe that the NYP is lying even without contradictory evidence based on past behavior, much like Russian propaganda or Project Veritas. Again, this is nothing new here. Demonstrably unreliable sources are little better than no source at all here.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:10

WaPo and CNN lie a lot more than NYP, and the NYT is a lot more biased. 😉 (I don’t know of any specific instance of the NYP lying, actually)

It’s credible, it’s a perfectly valid source, you just don’t like it, and I really couldn’t give two shits.

This is literally just you, a liberal, trying to ignore any and all conservative sources. Suck it, that’s not how this works.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:11

WaPo and CNN lie a lot more than NYP, and the NYT is a lot more biased. 😉 (I don’t know of any specific instance of the NYP lying, actually)

Well, I don’t know of any specific instance of CNN lying or the NYT being biased, so we’re even. Moreover, I never specified any particular source, so this is purely whataboutism on your part. Even assuming that WaPo, CNN, and the NYT are all less credible than the NYP, I never said that those were credible sources to begin with, so that doesn’t say anything about whether or not the NYP is a credible source. You’re making a lot of assumptions here.

Also, citing a biased source still works if the information within goes against those biases. So citing CNN for pro-conservative information or NYP for pro-Twitter or anti-conservative claims would be fine.

It’s credible, it’s a perfectly valid source, […]

Saying it over and over again doesn’t make it true.

[…] you just don’t like it, […]

That would require me to actually care about it. I don’t.

I just look up whether the source is biased and, if so, what sorts of biases it has; I also look to see whether and to what extent they have lied in the past. From there, I determine whether or not the source is reliable as to the claims alleged based on that information. (I don’t do this every single time a source is used; only the first time I see a source unless I was unable to find sufficient information to conclude that the source was biased for or against the underlying claim in previous checks.) It’s not a perfect system, to be sure, but it works well enough.

For the record, TYT and MSNBC are also sources I consider biased and not always reliable, at least on their own. I like them just fine, but I recognize that they are not always reliable. There are other sources whose names escape me at the moment that I like just fine but which I wouldn’t consider to be reliable sources. Additionally, in some cases, I have been just fine with using the WSJ as a source despite the fact that I don’t like it. Whether or not I like a given source is irrelevant. (Though if a source is particularly unreliable (and not just a parody like The Onion), that does tend to make me like it less, but that’s me disliking it for the same reasons I don’t consider it reliable, not me rejecting it as a source because I dislike it, so that would be getting the chain of events completely wrong there.)

[…] and I really couldn’t give two shits.

Then why spend so much time defending the NYP here?

This is literally just you, a liberal, trying to ignore any and all conservative sources. Suck it, that’s not how this works.

Again, if you were citing the NYP for something that doesn’t implicate NYP’s biases, that’d be a completely different story. Moreover, you assume that I wouldn’t do the same for liberal sources regarding claims that implicate their biases.

You’re making a lot of assumptions that simply aren’t warranted, many of which are also untrue. This doesn’t put you in a good light. Next time, stick to what I actually say rather than what the version of me in your head says.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:12

Well, I don’t know of any specific instance of CNN lying or the NYT being biased

So you just don’t know anything at all, and are new to the world, then? Or are just insanely biased.

Yeah, Bari, sadly that’s what I expected. I mean everyone is biased, but if you look at everything a site publishes and say “this is true, honest, and accurate” you just have no perspective at all.

It makes me sad for you, rather than angry at you, but isn’t going to stop the trolling, Ms Weiss.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

So you just don’t know anything at all, and are new to the world, then? Or are just insanely biased.

Or I just can’t be bothered because I haven’t needed to look into them. They’re rarely provided as sources when I ask, and I’ve never used them as a source, so it has never mattered.

Moreover, that was meant to be an invitation for you to back up your claims of bias and lies on their part. If you don’t feel like it, fine. I don’t care. After all, I never said anything about those sources being reliable. You could prove that they are as bad as PV and it wouldn’t change a thing for me.

Really, you just need to stop jumping to conclusions like this. You could really hurt yourself.

Yeah, Bari, sadly that’s what I expected. I mean everyone is biased, but if you look at everything a site publishes and say “this is true, honest, and accurate” you just have no perspective at all.

It makes me sad for you, rather than angry at you, but isn’t going to stop the trolling, Ms Weiss.

Oh, you’re talking to Bari? Okay. Again, don’t think I’ll ever see her, but if I do, I’ll be sure to let her know.

Let me know when you plan on talking to me again.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:9

“Mask mandates and lockdowns had barely any effect and had huge costs and harmed children that weren’t justifiable.”

I live in country that had mask mandates and had waaaay less problems with COVID than the US did. That’s just one data point, but why did you people have so many problems than everyone else, including significant more deaths in states that refused masks and vaccines compared to states that took vaccines seriously?

“Use whatever pronouns you want, but no, men still can’t get pregnant.”

I think the issue is more about whether trans people get treated as human beings rather than which gender gets pregnant, but I will assume the actual conversation is something you already hallucinated against.

This is the issue with you people a lot of the time – once you get into the real world and you’re presented with what people actually think instead of the half-assed strawmen you’ve been trained to think you’re fighting against, your arguments collapse very quickly, which leave you with nothing but impotent anger. Try discussing real things…

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:12

How do you know which country is from?

I didn’t have to, kinda the point. Per capita is a part of a unit of measurement, not an effect, but I was implicitly saying the incularum was very important.

Ms Bari Weiss, you are very much out of your depth. Y’know how they say there are no dumb questions? That isn’t actually true.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

I didn’t have to, kinda the point.

So, you just drew a conclusion not based on reality.

Per capita is a part of a unit of measurement, not an effect,

You compare effects by measuring them. When you compare the effects by measuring them per capita, you are removing the variable of the size of the country in question, so it doesn’t matter how big the country is at all.

Ms Bari Weiss, you are very much out of your depth. Y’know how they say there are no dumb questions? That isn’t actually true.

Not sure why you’re telling me this, but I’ll be sure to let her know how you feel about her should we ever meet.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:13

“I didn’t have to, kinda the point”

That’s really all people need to know about you. Facts are irrelevant so long as you can say something that conforms to an assumption.

You can state I’m from somewhere irrelevant, but so long as you don’t have to actually find out where I live and examine the data about how this disproves your earlier comment, you’re safe to stand behind the fiction that doesn’t conform to reality.

A very sad and pathetic way to live life.

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PaulT (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:7

“Right, so you attack the source.”

Yes, when you provide a source know to lie and have a personal beef relating to the subject, I reject their words at face value.

If the story is true, it shouldn’t be hard to find a more reliable source that isn’t obviously lying to you.

Why do you not have such a source to hand?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:6

First off, the NY Post is a Murdoch outlet that has a personal beef with Twitter because their account was briefly suspended under the hacked materials rule. There’s reasons to say that Twitter made the wrong call there, but if they’re all you have as a citation it’s unlikely to be factually based.

Right so you’re attacking the source. Nevermind that the source has links that are easily verified.

This is why it’s never worth it to provide links to a leftist screeching “source!” Queue ad hominem, prompt goal post shift.

If all the far left outlets refuse to cover a subject (VERY common, Hunter’s laptop being an excellent example) you’ll just pretend that there’s no evidence of it.

To provide an example to the contrary, this is what more neutral and reliable sources had to say on the subject in the past….[cites Independent and The Verge]

Your actual links are off topic but excellently illustrate my point. Both sites are HARD left. Not The Daily Worker but close. I’ll leave “reliable” alone but that you hold these two up as “neutral” is hilarious. And you are straight up saying that any sources to right of those two you will disregard. (even the NYT is considerably to the right of those two and NYT is liberal af)

So, you’re intent on ignoring evidence and are not engaging in good faith debate and should be ignored. I’m certainly going to ignore any complaints of yours about source, they’re not legitimate.

Sidenote: I strongly suspect “conservative ideas” get so much traction because they are true and make sense. People hear phrases like “men can become pregnant” and they think you’re a crazy nutter. (I’m sure you’d few any protestation of that phrase as “hate speech” — it is not, by the definition of a reasonable person)

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Chozen (profile) says:

Hypocracy:

#1 Mike complains about judge shopping in patent abuse cases then claims judge shopping doesn’t exist when his NetChoice friends clearly judge shop.

#2 Mike justifies having ambiguous terms of service, which are illegal in contract law FYI, because of “bad faith actors.” Mike then lets his users abuse the “flag this comment as abusive/trolling/spam in bad faith.

  1. Mike claims that no pressure was put on twitter while having articles on complaining about Trump doing the exact same thing to Amazon.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

What I meant to say was, Matthew Bennett is engaging in HARASSMENT.

If it was trolling, he’d have moved on to another shock post/topic instead of harping on “conservative” talking points. Trolls live on getting ANY sort of reaction, not fighting with ideological opposites.

Sorry about not clarifying.

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