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Elon Tries (Badly) To Defend The Banning Of Journalists As Twitter Starts Blocking Links & Mentions Of Mastodon

from the do-I-sense-some-worry? dept

Look, I fucking warned Elon that this is exactly how it would go. It’s how it always goes.

Remember Parler? They promised that they would moderate “based off the FCC and the Supreme court of the United States” (a nonsensical statement for a variety of reasons, including that the FCC does not regulate websites). Then, as soon as people started abusing that on the site, they suddenly came out with, um, new rules, including no “posting pictures of your fecal matter.”

Or how about Gettr? Founded by a former Trump spokesperson, and funded by a sketchy Chinese billionaire, it promised to be a “free speech” haven. Then it had to ban a bunch of white nationalists for, you know, doing white nationalist shit. Then, suddenly, it started banning anyone who mentioned that the sketchy billionaire funder might actually be a Chinese spy.

And then there’s Truth Social. It’s also supposed to be all about free speech, right? That’s what its pitch man, Donald Trump, keeps insisting. Except, an actual study that compared its content moderation to other sites found that Truth Social’s moderation was far more aggressive and arbitrary than any other site. Among the forbidden things to “truth” about on Truth Social? Any talk of the Congressional hearings on January 6th. Much freedom. Very speech.

So, look, it’s no surprise that Musk was never actually going to be able to live up to his notoriously fickle word regarding “free speech” on Twitter. I mean, we wrote many, many articles highlighting all of this.

But, really, it would be nice if he didn’t then insult everyone’s intelligence about this and pretend that he’s still taking some principled righteous stand. It would be nice if he admitted that “oh shit, maybe content moderation is trickier than I thought” and maybe, just maybe, “Twitter actually had a really strong and thoughtful trust & safety team that actually worked extremely hard to be as permissive as possible, while still maintaining a website that users and advertisers liked.” But that would require an actual ability to look inward and recognize mistakes, which is not one of Elon’s strongsuits.

So, last night, after banning a ton of journalist accounts on Twitter, Elon and his Trust & Safety VP, Ella Irwin, tried to defend the decision. But they did so badly. Irwin pushed out a bullshit statement to the media:

“Without commenting on any specific user accounts, I can confirm that we will suspend any accounts that violate our privacy policies and put other users at risk,” Irwin said. “We don’t make exceptions to this policy for journalists or any other accounts.”

Yeah… that’s not what people are complaining about. They weren’t saying journalists should get special treatment for breaking the rules. They’re asking how the fuck did what these journalists posted break the rules?

Eventually Musk jumped on Twitter, of course, and like Irwin, tried to pretend that they were just making sure the rules applied equally to journalists as to everyone else. Except… that was always the case? The issue was that yesterday, they created new laughably stupid rules to ban an account tweeting publicly available information regarding Elon Musk’s jet. Then Musk took it further and claimed that this (again) publicly available information was “assassination coordinates.”

Elon tweets: "Same doxxing rules apply to journalists as to everyone else.

They posted my exact real-time location, basically assassination coordinates, in (obvious) direct violation of Twitter terms of service

Well, except for a few minor details. First, he just fucking changed the terms of service to shut down the jet tracker, and made them so broad and vague that tons of tweets would violate the rule — including anyone using Twitter’s built-in location indicator to tweet a photo of someone else. Second, the location of his plane is public information. It’s not “assassination coordinates.” If Musk is worried about getting assassinated, hiding this account isn’t going to help, because the assassin will just go straight to the ADS-B source and get the data anyway. Third, I get that Musk claims his child was in a car that was attacked the other night, but there remain some open questions about that story. For example, the location where it occurred, as deduced by BellingCat, was not close to any airport.

Eliot Higgins tweet explaining that they tracked the video that Musk posted online to a location in LA not near the airport.

Given that, it’s not at all clear how this is connected to the jet tracking service.

Furthermore, the LAPD put out a statement on this:

LAPD’s Threat Management Unit (TMU) is aware of the situation and tweet by Elon Musk and is in contact with his representatives and security team. No crime reports have been filed yet.

Which, you know, seems notable. Because if a stalker actually went after him, you’d think that rather than just posting about it on social media, he might contact the police?

But, most importantly, none of the journalists in question actually posted “real time” assassination coordinates for Musk. They had posted about this whole story having to do with content moderation decisions made by Musk. Hell, one of the journalists, Donie Sullivan, got banned for tweeting that LAPD statement.

So, yeah, it’s not about “equal treatment” for journalists. It’s about coming up with bullshit arbitrary rules that just so happen to ban the journalists who have been calling out all the dumb shit Elon has been doing. Which, you know, was the kinda thing Elon insisted was the big problem under the last regime, and insisted he was brought in to solve.

From there it got even worse. A bunch of journalists, including a few of those who were banned (who, for unclear reasons were still able to log into Twitter Spaces, the real-time audio chat feature of Twitter) began discussing all of this, and Elon Musk showed up to… well… not quite defend himself? But, uh, to do whatever this was:

It starts with (banned) Washington Post journalist Drew Harwell asking a pretty good journalistic question:

One, I don’t think anyone in this room supports stalking. I’m sorry to hear about what happened with your family. Do you have evidence connecting the incident in LA with this flight tracking data? And separately, if this is an important enough issue to you, why not enact the rule change on Twitter and give accounts like Jack Sweeney’s, time to respond to, like you said, a slight delay in providing the data? Why say last month that you would support keeping his account online for free speech and then immediately suspend not just his account, but journalists reporting on it?

Unfortunately, before Elon could say anything, another reporter, Katie Notopoulos from Buzzfeed (who started the Twitter Space) jumped in with, perhaps, a less well composed question (this isn’t criticism — coming up with questions on the spot is difficult — but I do wonder what would have happened if Musk had been allowed to respond directly to Drew’s question).

Elon, thank you for joining, I am hoping that you can give a little more context about what has happened in the last few hours with a handful of journalists being banned?

Elon then says a lot of nonsense, basically just that “doxing is bad and anyone who has been threatened should agree with this policy.”

Well, as I’m sure everyone who’s been doxed would agree, showing real-time information about somebody’s location is inappropriate. And I think everyone would not like that to be done to them. And there’s not going to be any distinction in the future between so-called journalists and regular people. Everyone is going to be treated the same—no special treatment. You dox, you get suspended. End of story.

And ban evasion or trying to be clever about it, like “Oh, I posted a link to the real-time information,” that’s obviously something trying to evade the meaning, that’s no different from actually showing real-time information.

I mean, a lot of this is kind of infuriating. Because many of the bans that happened in the last regime, and which Musk got so mad about, were also about putting people in danger. And Musk seems singularly concerned only when he’s the target. Over the weekend, he posted some incredibly misleading bullshit about his former head of trust & safety, Yoel Roth, taking an old tweet and a clip from his dissertation and acting as if both said the literal opposite of what Roth was saying in them (in both cases, Yoel was actually highlighting issues regarding keeping children safe from predators, and Elon and legions of his fans pretended he was doing the opposite, which is just trash). Following that, a large news organization that I will not name posted a very clear description of Yoel’s home, and tweeted out a link with those details. That tweet still is on Twitter today, and Yoel and his family had to flee their home after receiving very credible threats.

Again, I repeat, the tweet that identified his home is still on Twitter today. And Elon has done nothing about it.

So spare me the claim that this is about “inappropriate” sharing of information. None of the information the journalists shared was inappropriate, and Musk himself has contributed to threats on people’s lives.

As for the whole ban evasion thing, well, that’s also nonsense, but there’s more. Notopoulos asked another question:

When you’re saying, ‘posting a link to it,’ I mean, some of the people like Drew and Ryan Mac from The New York Times, who were banned, they were reporting on it in the course of pretty normal journalistic endeavors. You consider that like a tricky attempted ban evasion?

To which Musk responded:

You show the link to the real-time information – ban evasion, obviously.

So, again, that’s not at all what “ban evasion” means. The ban was on the information. Not a link to an account. Or a reporter talking about an article that links to an account. Or a reporter talking about a police report that very loosely kinda connects to the account.

And, again, banning links to the media was the thing that I thought Musk and his fans were completely up in arms about regarding the ban on the link to the NY Post story about Hunter Biden’s laptop. Remember? It was like a week ago that it was a “huge reveal” by Elon Musk and his handpicked reporters, who apparently revealed what was the crime of the century and possibly treason when Twitter banned a link over worries of harm. Drew Harwell, finally getting a chance to ask a question, got into this slightly awkward exchange where the two seem to be talking about different things, but Drew is making the point comparing it to the NY Post thing:

Drew: You’re suggesting that we’re sharing your address, which is not true. I never posted your address.

Elon: You posted a link to the address.

Drew: In the course of reporting about ElonJet, we posted links to ElonJet, which are now banned on Twitter. Twitter also marks even the Instagram and Mastodon accounts of ElonJet as harmful. We have to acknowledge, using the exact same link-blocking technique that you have criticized as part of the Hunter Biden-New York Post story in 2020. So what is different here?

Elon: It’s not more acceptable for you than it is for me. It’s the same thing.

Drew: So it’s unacceptable what you’re doing?

Elon: No. You doxx, you get suspended. End of story. That’s it.

And with that “end of story” he left the chat abruptly, even as others started asking more questions.

So that whole exchange makes no sense. They’re clearly talking past each other, and Elon is so focused on the “journalists doxing!” that he can’t even seem to comprehend what Drew is actually asking him there, which is comparing it to the NY Post thing.

And, of course, it also seems relevant to the January 6th/Donald Trump decision, which Musk has also roundly criticized. One of Musk’s buddies, Jason Calacanis, was also in the space defending Musk, and I only heard bits and pieces of it because (1) Twitter Spaces kept kicking me out and (2) before the Space ended, Twitter took all of Spaces offline, meaning that the recording isn’t available (Musk is claiming on Twitter that it’s a newly discovered bug, though tons of people are assuming, as people will do, that Musk pulled the plug to get the journalists to stop talking about him).

However, on Twitter, Calacanis tweeted what he insisted was a simple message:

It’s just so obvious to everyone: don’t dox or stalk anyone.

Someone will get hurt or worse.

💕Be good to each other💕

If you are splitting hairs on the definition of these words, or claiming it’s public information, you’re missing the basic human concept here: people’s safety.

But, again, this brings us right back around to the top of the story. “It’s just so obvious” is a traditional part of this content moderation learning curve. It always seems so obvious that, “sure, this speech is legal, but man, it seems so bad, we gotta take it down.” In this case, it’s “don’t stalk the billionaire CEO” (which, yeah, don’t do that shit).

But this is how content moderation works. There’s a reason the role is called “Trust & Safety” because you’re trying to weigh different tradeoffs to make things trustworthy and safe. But Musk hasn’t been doing that. He seems only focused on his own safety.

And Calacanis’s claim that people are “missing the basic human concept here: people’s safety” well… that brings me to January 6th and Twitter’s decision to ban Trump. Because, you know, as Twitter explained publicly at the time and was re-revealed recently in Musk’s “Twitter Files,” this was exactly the debate that went on inside Twitter among its executives and trust & safety bosses.

They looked at the riot at the Capitol where people literally died, and which the then President seemed reluctant to call off, realized that there was no guarantee he wouldn’t organize a follow up, decided that “people’s safety” mattered here, and made the hard call to ban Trump. To protect people’s safety.

Now, you can criticize that decision. You can offer alternative arguments for it. But there was a rationale for it, and it’s the exact same one Musk and his team are now using to justify these bans. But we’re not seeing the screaming and gnashing about how this is “against free speech” or whatever from Musk and his supporters. We’re not likely to see Musk have Matt Taibbi and Bari Weiss do a breathless expose on his internal DMs while all this went down.

That’s what’s hypocritical here.

(And we won’t even get into Musk going back on his other promise that they wouldn’t do suspensions any more, just decreased “reach” for the “bad or negative” tweets).

Every website that has third party content has to do moderation. Every one. It’s how it works. And every website has the right to moderate how they want. That’s part of their editorial discretion.

Musk absolutely can make bad decisions. Just like the previous Twitter could (and did). But it would be nice if they fucking realized that they’re doing the same damn thing, but on a much flimsier basis, and backed by utter and complete nonsense.

I asked Calacanis about the “public safety” issue and the Trump decision on Twitter, and got… a strange response.

In response he says:

I am a fan of using the blocking and mute tools for almost everything you don’t like at this joint.

Which, when you think about it, is a weird fucking response. After all, he was just going on and on about how it was righteous to ban a bunch of journalists because of “people’s safety.” But also that these problems can be solved by muting and blocking? So either he thinks Musk should have just muted and blocked all these reporters… or… what? It also does not actually respond to the question.

And, once again, we’re back to the same damn thing with content moderation at scale. Every decision has tons of tradeoffs. People are always going to be upset. But there are principled ways of doing it, and non-principled ways of doing it. And Elon/Jason are showing their lack of principles. They’re only trying to protect themselves, and seem to feel everyone else should just use “mute” and “block.”

Oh, and finally….

This post went on way longer than I initially intended it to, but there is an important postscript here. Last night, when we wrote about the banning of the @JoinMastodon account on Twitter, I actually downplayed the idea that it was about Team Musk being scared of a rapidly growing competitor. I was pretty sure it was because of the link to the @ElonJet account that was now working on Mastodon. And, that’s certainly the excuse that Musk and friends are still giving.

Buuuuut… there are reasons to believe it’s a bit more than that. Because as the evening wore on, Twitter basically started banning all links to any Mastodon server they could find. A bunch of people started posting examples. Some screenshots:

Those were just a few of many, many examples that can be found on both Twitter and Mastodon of Twitter effectively blocking any links to more high profile Mastodon servers (it appears that smaller or individual instances are still making it through).

Even more ridiculous, they’re banning people from updating their profiles with Mastodon addresses.

See that screenshot? It says “Account update failed: Description is considered malware.”

So, yeah, they’re now saying that if you put your Mastodon bio in your profile, it’s malware. Given that, it’s a little difficult to believe that this is all just about “public safety” regarding Elon stalkers, and not, perhaps, a little anti-competitive behavior on the part of an increasingly desperate Elon Musk.

Way to support free speech.

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Comments on “Elon Tries (Badly) To Defend The Banning Of Journalists As Twitter Starts Blocking Links & Mentions Of Mastodon”

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136 Comments
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Anonymous Coward says:

It’s okay when AOC gets harassed.

It’s okay when Yoel Roth gets credible death threats.

But it’s not okay when Elon’s jet is public information?

I’m sensing something wrong here. Very wrong.

And it’s Elon’s hypocritical, possibly white supremacist take on free expression.

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Wil says:

Re: There's so many examples...

There are people that have been repeatedly harassed, SWATTed, death threats against them or their families, and surreptitious videos and photos posted of them from a distance, and Twitter hasn’t done shit about stopping their end of it. But now all of a sudden Musk gets a small taste – publicly available and legal taste – and he flips the fuck out. He’s like every other poster who’s gone completely overboard in response to the slightest negative reaction.

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migi (profile) says:

Re: Re:

1) Elon’s plane flight path is public information because FAA rules require it to be for traffic management purpouses.
2) If Elon wanted, he could by another plane, or $44bn worth of planes, and you’d never know which one he was using.
3) If he flew on commercial planes, or drove, or took the train this would also solve the problem.
4) Elonjet posts where the plane takes off and where it lands. The idea you could use this as practical “assassination coordinates” is ludicrous. You’d need to hover around his plane’s last known location, follow it when it takes off, land before him, then rush to get within assassination distance.

So to summarise, his complaint is BS, can easily be solved with money, and he isn’t lacking money.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Technically true. And any info given by the FAA is also public information.

Though what happens if you pair up the FAA info with a ton of other publicly available information…

And then put that data in one nice package…

Note, Elon is rich enough to BUY a certain amount of security. He simply has to legit deal with it, just like how Twitter’s inaction has caused Yoel Roth and AOC to simply deal with their harassment.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

It absolutely is Doxing.

Every piece of information he uses is ALL public data. Just because he is smart enough to put all the pieces together, doesn’t make it doxing, because, like I already said, all the data he is using is PUBLIC DATA!

Why don’t you just go back to your public housing and see if you can trespass somebody while trying to figure out threaded comment sections so you can post about how wrong you were about the Texas AG forcing DirecTV to carry OAN.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

“Every piece of information he uses is ALL public data. Just because he is smart enough to put all the pieces together, doesn’t make it doxing, because, like I already said, all the data he is using is PUBLIC DATA!”

He is using public data to crack a private identification number to make the private known. That is doxing you fucking moron.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

He is using public data to crack a private identification number to make the private known. That is doxing you fucking moron.

Doxing, you fucking moron, is when you make PRIVATE data available to the public.

Did you see the word I capitalized and bolded?

Anonymous PUBLIC data is not private data. Just because it’s anonymized, does not mean it’s private, especially when that data is publicized.

You fucking idiot.

Tell us, when is DirecTV going to be forced to carry OAN again?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

For someone angry about how leftists hang him out to dry, Chozen can’t seem to stop shilling constantly on behalf of people who have absolutely no respect for his race or sexuality unless it happens to be politically convenient.

Maybe he thinks if he Musk stans hard enough Elon will give him one of his countless abandoned enby offspring as a boytoy.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

…well, the thing is, this isn’t like the Chris Roberts case, where known asshole and the only person to lose to a vending machine Derek Smart got all publicly available information on Chris Roberts and his wife in one neat package and released it in an attempt to intimidate Chris Roberts to stop making Star Citizen.

Jack Sweeney only proved that the FAA’s PIA program is… lacking. And even then, all it shows is, well, a freakin’ jet at the end of the day.

Now, someone who has access to fighter jets or an anti-air battery would be able to use that info to blow Elon’s jet out of the sky, or plan an assassination attempt, but there’s only two groups who have access to those resources: criminal cartels/groups and nation-states.

And Elon probably hasn’t done enough to piss off a crime lord. But he’s doing business with Putin, Xi and other such pleasant characters…

Don says:

I think he jumped into the Twitter Space and said what he did because he knew that a significant portion of the media (I saw it in an Axios newsletter this morning) would report on it at a very superficial level, using the “some on the left say it’s hypocrisy while some on the right say it’s the tables turning” and then end on his “you dox you get banned period” with zero context that he was intentionally misrepresenting the question or that he stormed out of the Space or even mentioning that the space (and all others) ended abruptly. It’s truly the trump playbook of “normies get a whitewashed and reasonable sounding story while those who are on Twitter all day k ow what really happened.”

Drew Wilson (user link) says:

Re: My Profile is (So Far) Unaffected

So far, my profile has somehow been unaffected. What I have is just the straight text of the Mastodon URL like this:

The official http://Freezenet.ca Twitter account! (Mastodon: @freezenet@noc.social )

It would appear that plain text of addresses are not recognized (yet). Plus, I’m on a slightly smaller instance which I’m guessing may have helped matters. I also made the change before the Mastodon URL bans as well which may have proven helpful as well (maybe?).

Going to continue to watch things unfold and see if that changes, but this might be a way to help people find you on Mastodon without getting caught by the Twitter censors.

Owlmirror says:

Re:

So, yeah, huh.

Official Twitter policy seems to now be no links whatsoever to any other social media site, including linktr.ee.

Or is it? Really, I just checked again now, and the page is 404ing. But it’s in the web archive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20221218210921/help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/social-platforms-policy

And, as noted by others, the screenshot thing is a violating workaround.

Additionally, any attempts to bypass restrictions on external links to the above prohibited social media platforms through technical or non-technical means (e.g. URL cloaking, plaintext obfuscation) is in violation of this policy. This includes, but is not limited to, spelling out “dot” for social media platforms that use “.” in the names to avoid URL creation, or sharing screenshots of your handle on a prohibited social media platform.

Well, goddamn.

I assume that rot13-ing the URL (znfgbqba.fbpvny) or reversing it (laicos.nodotsam), or both, would presumably also fall afoul (or would have fallen afoul?) of the rule. BAN! BAN! BAN!

I also saw a post screenshot of Twitter flagging a post with a link to the mastodon (as in the extinct proboscidean) Wikipedia page. Yes, we all need to be protected from palaeontology. All those dirty bone groomers . . .

David says:

Nothing ominous here.

Look, Musk has given the pink slip to everyone who is not up to sycophanting him, most likely due to economic pressure.

There is not enough personnel around to do a good job anymore, so they have to prioritize their bad job in ways that are proof against getting fired by Musk.

Of course this results in an ensemble of decisions that make Musk look like a big hypocrite because it overamplifies whatever people believe Musk might want.

The solution, of course, is to make the workload manageable. If everybody sane just leaves Twitter until the bot-and-troll percentage reaches 100%, Twitter can then just ban everybody who is still posting and then wait for everybody sane to return.

That can be accomplished with a comparatively small work force.

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Anonymous Coward says:

I just… I have to assume post people defending him with ‘free speech’ talking points are doing so in bad faith at this point.

I understand free speech, and it’s importance. I understand Twitter is Elon’s house, and he can do what he likes with it.

So just stop with the inane defenses. You can just admit you want a space to ‘own the libs’ or whatever without consequence. Hell, the 1st Amendment gives you that very right; it’s an important part of the whole concept of ‘free speech’, ‘freedom of association’, ‘freedom from compelled speech’, whatever.

Just stop the pretending. Because that is what is annoying folk like me. I don’t -hate- Elon Musk. I just think he’s a hypocrite. I’m not getting ‘triggered’ by his childish memes or whatnot, or that he’s going after folk they perceive as ‘left-wing’.
I do hate though what he’s doing to Twitter. For all the flak Twitter gets thrown at it, it was an incredibly useful platform for keeping up with journalists, data aggregators, etc. It was a fun platform for memes, playing with bots, and other enjoyment. That is now just being utterly destroyed.
And I do hate this weird vitriol people are aiming in the direction of current and ex Twitter employees. Most of those will just be folks trying to make a living, and they’re now having to deal with all this crap of their lives being blown up just before Christmas. It ain’t fun when your job suddenly gets thrown into chaos. For most, a job is just something needed to pay the bills and you do not want that security messed with. I’d never cheer for someone losing their job in that context.

Just stop with the pretending to defend this billionaire for noble reasons.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I have to add as well, just as a general note on this whole affair, how utterly disappointed I’ve become in Matt Taibbi. I had quite a bit of respect for him back when he was with Rolling Stone, he was a savvy reporter. I hadn’t kept up too much with his more recent work, so no idea if it was something obvious to those paying attention, but his work with Elon lately has just been… bad. It’s bad. It reeks of a reporter not willing to piss off a source in exchange for “leaks”, when it flies in the face of integrity.
It’s a shame. And as this recent ban wave shows, doing actual damage to reporting on Twitter as a whole.

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morganwick (profile) says:

Re:

They are members of the in-group, they should get to say whatever they want. Journalists and marginalized groups are part of the out-group, they should not get to say anything the in-group doesn’t like. You can’t get them to see the hypocrisy because at base level, the only thing that matters is whether the in-group is being bound or the out-group is being protected.

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Anonymous Coward says:

What’s amazing to me is that there are a number of trolls here who insisted that Jack and Twitter admins were all “libs” trying to silence conservative voices on Twitter. Obviously that was never the case and the people who feel that way refuse to accept facts that prove they are wrong.

BUT….

Now we see what actual viewpoint discrimination is, being done by the owner of Twitter and his admins.

So when it was old Twitter they would complain about something that never happened, and now that it actually is happening… silence

When are all the “conservatives are being silenced” crowd who believed it was wrong to do so going to come here and complain that Elmo is “censoring” people because of their political viewpoints?

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Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re:

When large generic speech platforms censor opinions based on viewpoint, they are depriving their users of freedom of speech on the platform. That’s true regardless of who owns the platform, and it’s true regardless of which viewpoints are being censored.

The only reason I would have for not immediately complaining about Musk censoring is that Twitter seems to be in utter chaos, making it tempting to attribute the shenanigans to stupidity rather than malice.

Note that when it comes to censorship by woke ideologues, it is wrong to think of them as mustache-twirling villains. They truly believe that they are providing safety and otherwise doing good when they silence opinions they hate. They’re wrong and need to be stopped, but they’re not evil, just misguided. As we know, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

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BJC860 says:

Weird response

Hiya Mike,

Great article, as per usual. One quibble though. This:

“Which, when you think about it, is a weird fucking response.”

I disagree his was response was weird. His response was clearly someone with an agenda, that actually had no interest in responding to what you were saying. He’s Elon’s buddy, so he is not at all interested in engaging in good faith here. It’s pretty much just straight Elon talking points. It’s utterly pathetic, but it is what it is.

Synonymous Scaredycat (profile) says:

Is Elon feeling threatened by Mastodon really that bad of an explanation for part of this?

Maybe it’s not a real threat by the numbers yet, but people are actually setting up new instances and rejecting ones like the Raspberry Pi mess. Users are migrating, and some who maintain a Twitter presence have joined the majority of users who don’t post. Or have scaled back their use basically to promotional cross-posts.

And so my doom and gloom scenario about Mastodon not scaling probably won’t come to pass because those instances will be there for new users. I still kind of see it as a waste of time like all social media, but it probably attracts a higher level of engagement and thought from users than Twitter does.

People mock ‘safe spaces’, but Mastodon is built towards allowing users to feel safe in a ‘community’ of like-minded users while still being able to connect to the wider world. Part of the shittiness of Twitter was a lack of that, the open barren wastelands of user who might attack you simply for tweeting about your lunch or ignore your desperate pleas for help; a place with no real continuity to hold it together.

Whatever, fuck Old Twitter, fuck Elon Twitter, fuck Elon too… fuck his shitty-ass satellites, fuck his Starshield nonsense, fuck his fans, fuck his garbage cars, fuck hearing about him, fuck him being an even more abusive dad than his own father, fuck him leading a cult of bigots…

I still hope this shit bankrupts him and manages to wipe out all his companies, unless they can somehow escape his turdfingered touch; most of them were founded by other people who are actual engineers and they deserve to be able to redeem their vision (maybe).

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

People mock ‘safe spaces’, but Mastodon is built towards allowing users to feel safe in a ‘community’ of like-minded users while still being able to connect to the wider world.

That’s (mostly) the point of “safe spaces”: They exist to create as safe a space as possible for those who often lack the space to be themselves without facing pushback (or worse).

Synonymous Scaredycat (profile) says:

Re: Re:

That’s not new information to me, though it is incomplete on your part; I’ve known about ‘safe spaces’ for well over a decade, before that term became widely mocked by people like Elon Musk. My point is that while people people may (foolishly) mock those spaces they exist to facilitate speech instead of stifle it. More importantly they exist to facilitate communication with specific, meaningful, and important functions. And that can apply just as much to being a specialist, having niche hobbies, or political views as it does to marginalization and trauma.

That means Mastodon will always provide more functionality that Twitter has, in a similar way to how Discord provides so much functionality for people now. In contrast, during the decade I was on (and off, then on, then off, etc) Twitter it’s felt like many of the people who posted in the highest amounts and used it regularly (like myself) have always been looking for and using Twitter alternatives to have more meaningful conversations off of Twitter (which has never been suited for that). Since roughly 2017 that need became much more apparent to more people I think, but it’s always been there as a need.

When I’ve used Twitter for work instead of for personal use, I’ve found it’s terrible for communicating in an efficient manner. You essentially have to spam your own posts to ‘build an audience’, and other forms of communication that can be done better on an actual blog or website. Clearly I’m incredibly burned-out from that decade of using the hellsite (and still reading it even when my accounts weren’t in use) and it’s made me much more crass and much less patient with others on the internet. I know it’s not just me; personally I feel it’s contributed to more toxic habits in online discussions, which become cultural norms in online communication.

Mastodon has the functions required to be (at least part of) a healthy antidote to that, by allowing for setting new norms based that make communicating on the internet somewhat worthwhile again instead of just a virtual minefield. Creating safe spaces that facilitate communication is more worthwhile than simply driving engagement. People can mock that and favor wide-open free speech, but while they may still have meaningful conversations without safe spaces they exist in definitionally unsafe spaces that tend to be driven by gamification instead instead of anything worthwhile. And as a result conversations will be much less meaningful, productive, and worthwhile on places like Twitter where it’s a free-for-all.

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Anonymous Coward says:

One minor quibble

Grabbing the ADS-B source won’t help if Musk put the plane in the PIA program. You’d get a fake identifier not associated with Musk.
That is why Sweeney grabbed other publicly available data, regardless of it was anonymized or not, and combined it to put up announcements of Musk’s private plane took of from Y or landed at X.

If anything what Sweeney did is showing that anonymization of data only works in a dataset and that all bets are of when you can combine sets.

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Erik S says:

What fascists do

The behavior of Musk and his defenders/allies is familiar.

From Hannah Arendt’s “Origins of Totalitarianism” (1951)

In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and nothing was true… The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.

And John Paul Sartre in 1944 (don’t get hung up on references to anti-Semites, he was writing about Nazis and their fellows):

[…] Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge.

But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors.

They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. […]

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Chozen (profile) says:

Gay Old Time

Oh I’m having a gay old time googling BestNetTech Anonymized Cell Data etc. and off on how awful it is to use algorithms and other data to unmask anonymized data.

Its so fun I suggest you try it. Just see what BestNetTech has said about the action this kid Jack Sweeney was doing taking ammonized private plane PIA numbers and then running an algorithm to unmask the personal information.

“Yet most companies, many privacy policy folk, and even government officials still like to act as if “anonymizing” your data actually something.

That’s a particular problem when it comes to user location data, which has been repeatedly abused by everybody from stalkers to law enforcement.”

And Mike is calling Musk a hypocrite. lol

You are such a hypocritical piece of shit Mike!

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Oh you fucking idiot. Let me put it like a child.

Musk’s private jet location is no more public information than cell data is public information. Musk’s jet has an private anonymized PIA number. Sweeney uses an algorithm to to crack the PIA number.

BestNetTech has thread after thread complaining about this kind of shit.

Mike is an absolute fucking hypocrite.

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RyunosukeKusanagi (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

planespotting is not illegal… in fact, planespotting is how we found out about CIA black flights. It’s how we track Russian oligarchs, Turkish rendition flights, movement of Govt officials, Even Air Force One (they still have to file a flight plan, even when US airspace was closed on 9/11, which is how we found out where Bush went).

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I never said it was illegal. I said BestNetTech has lots of threads complaining about the practice.

You must have never learned proper reading comprehension. If you have read any of the TD articles critical about anonymous data is that it never really is anonymous data because in can be correlated with other data to de-anonymize it.

That you think these articles say something different just goes to show what a fucking idiot you are.

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Chozen (profile) says:

Re:

I found out awhile ago that you can quickly google BestNetTech artilces saying the exact oposite thing of what they are saying today.

I first learned this when Mike said ‘judge shopping doesn’t exist’ then found literally a dozen articles of Mike complaining about judge shopping in patent abuse cases. Here is the thing though. I agree with Mike on judge shopping on patent abuse. But I’m not a lying hypocrite so I don’t pretend judge shopping doesn’t exist when the shopped judge agrees with me.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Actually, you’re worse than that.

You’ve threatened to rape a regular and spread slander about Mike in an attempt to get him to close shop.

You’re a disgusting WHITE liar and stochastic terrorist.

You are likely NOT Latino, NOT Bi, and NOT an engineer of any kind. And you probbaly Googled up what a plat map is.

And I WAS from the 4chan cesspit.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Rape has little to do with sex and has always been about power.

As in, you having power the raped.

And it doesn’t matter if you’re bi or whatever. (And for anyone reading this, Chozen is a known liar.)

Though you don’t care about that. You just want to dehumanize us to the point where it’s acceptable in your head to murder us all.

The only reason you are here is to commit stochastic terrorism. You have indirectly admitted to doing so while spreading slander.

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Anon says:

Nailed it first few paragraphs

Yes, the problem is – in the days of TV and print, there was limited space and the editor(s) necessarily were gatekeepers and so responsible for what was published. They could then (a) moderate and (b) be held liable for defamatory or inappropriate content.

Social media cannot follow that model. content is practicality unlimited and so by volume and immediacy cannot be humanly moderated economically. Regardless, contributors are anonymous to some degree and so cannot be held liable for what they say. Even if the person can be discovered, it may be logistically and financially impossible to properly sue them all, and courts are far too slow (We still have no resolution for Dominion and MyPillow).

Even asking the members to moderate, by reporting perceived violations, is subject to being manipulated, and overloading the moderation team because complaints need investigation.

Even with content moderation limited to copyright, we have seen numerous examples of how the system fails, or can be gamed or scammed. Automated systems fail even more miserably. Meanwhile, we have the Facebook/Twitter/Telephone system problem – a system is less useful if it is fragmented. Two or three Twitters or Facebooks, or telephones that can’t call some other telephones, are far less useful.

Is there a solution? I don’t see an easy one. The first solution is not optimal – make everyone’s identity transparent or at least discoverable. Again, has upside and downside. People will be somewhat more cautious if they are not anonymous, but again less likely to participate. Plus, how do you verify the person? Things like the recent Mr. Pelosi smear was simply a reference (honest or not) to a non-twitter posting. Can you really ban links? Also, accounts can be hijacked. Even Facebook with a “use ral name” policy has its failings.

Rocky says:

Re:

The first solution is not optimal – make everyone’s identity transparent or at least discoverable. Again, has upside and downside. People will be somewhat more cautious if they are not anonymous, but again less likely to participate.

Research done on how people act on FB under their real name indicates that isn’t the case.

Hyman Rosen (profile) says:

Re:

The solution is basically what you see on Facebook – small topic-oriented groups with moderators who keep the discussion on track, and people who opt in to those groups. The wider platform should allow any viewpoints but moderate for form, while the individual groups should document their specific policies so that people can decide whether to participate.

The wider platform is basically good for one-way communication, from the commenter to anyone who cares to follow, while the small groups are better for discussion. Even with the best of intentions, no one can reasonably hold a conversation with enormous numbers of participants anyway.

Note that even for small groups, moderation is hard. People will insist on floutng the rules, getting into fights, and posting off-topic, and the moderators have to put in yeoman efforts to herd the cats.

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Anonymous Coward says:

I disagree with your analysis that Capital/someone should be left alone because “private property”.

Here are my reasons why your arguments are not sound both legally & morally.

Here is a summary of your arguments in the article (plz correct me if I misunderstood/misrepresented your arguments)

1. Musk has right to kick anyone he pleases bcoz its his “private property”.
2. State compelling a private entity to explain arbitrary exercise of its power is bad because the distance b/n compelling Musk to behave responsibly & actual state intimidation is not that far off, hence dangerous ⇒ is a slippery slope.

Your arguments fundamentally ignore the near monopolistic nature of power being exercised by Musk & rest of tech companies who monopolised the markets. By ignoring their size & undue control one/a small group exercises over rest of society & suggesting any reasonable restrictions on their exercise of that power amounts to allowing State to harass everyone else is not a sound argument. We have anti-trust laws only for cases where one exercises undue power in any given market & they are not applicable to all businesses.

By ignoring size & degree of influence one exercises, your arguments eliminated the distinction between power exercised by a mom & pop outlet in a locality vs a monopoly retail chain. Then you came to the unsound conclusion that if we use State to regulate corporate monopolies/oligopolies, then we are automatically enabling a slippery slope where we grant State blank cheque to terrorise mom & pop stores too in the future. I dont think that argument is sound as we can have more checks over those who exercise undue power & allow those who dont exercise that sort of undue power from State’s intimidation.

Twitter, Facebook & rest are straight forward oligopolies, which is why they force advertisers to pay them that sort of money & compel people not to move out without harm. When Musk says, twitter is the digital town square, he is right (atleast for now) as he holds near monopoly over largest microphone in society — Twitter. Since he trapped all of is in his website just like Facebook & rest (thanks to bribes all these tech monopolies pay to politicians i.e “political activity, to ensure no laws are passed to compel these monopolies to allow people friendly policies such as social network portability) have absolute control over the social network of most of us & can cut us off access to our social network (and in many people’s cases — people’s livelihood) at the whims & fancies of moderators/owners of these companies. Hence they hold & exercise undue power over society.

Since people cant move off the n/w because of this monopolistic behaviour enabled by State & Capital collusion, people have every right to coerce him (incl using State as last resort) to compel him to prove he is exercising that undue power responsibly (atleast pretend to exercise it responsibly — like last owners did even if its all smoke & mirrors).

In case of TV network example you took (Fox News), its not that straight forward. Atleast TV channels cant break social n/ws of large groups of people that easily & these TV channels cant hold us hostage & undermine our associations. By in case of digital monopolies, not being on these social n/ws implies people are at significant disadvantage wrt whats happening around them & who they are in touch with. The longer they stay, the more control exerted by the network over all of us.

By effectively banning Mastodon now, Musk made a straight forward anti-trust move (he holds near monopoly) in that space. Thats something well within legal realm to go after Musk for this behaviour. Also, why should “private property” be held above social good? Why should unconstrained power be held above equity, fairness & justice? “Private property” is just an ideology thats created to benefit who hold undue amount of it to control society. Its an ideology cooked up by rich to control society & we have no good reason to accept that it has any legitimate moral component.

There is simple principle we all follow in life & also in law. If the actions we perform have huge impact — say taking a huge risk, we do more due diligence. If our decisions have disproportionate impact on other’s lives, we should be compelled to prove we exercised that power with proper due diligence. If you have billions, your accounts needs to scrutinised more thoroughly than if you have few thousand bucks in your a/c. By erasing the distinction wrt power exercised by a street hawker vs whats exercised by a monopolist & making everything about “private property”, your argument ignores (intentionally/otherwise) the real world power wielded in society & erases all pragmatic and intelligent distinction we make wrt decision making.

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Rocky says:

Your arguments fundamentally ignore the near monopolistic nature of power being exercised by Musk & rest of tech companies who monopolised the markets.

And it’s here everything in your argument falls to pieces because you ignore the fact that these companies compete against each other and every other social media company, vying for ads and users. And the fact is, Twitter struggled financially even before Musk’s “intervention” which seems odd if they dominated the market in a monopolistic fashion.

It’s like saying that the prominent car manufacturers are near monopolistic because they have monopolized the markets.

By ignoring size & degree of influence one exercises, your arguments eliminated the distinction between power exercised by a mom & pop outlet in a locality vs a monopoly retail chain. Then you came to the unsound conclusion that if we use State to regulate corporate monopolies/oligopolies, then we are automatically enabling a slippery slope where we grant State blank cheque to terrorise mom & pop stores too in the future. I dont think that argument is sound as we can have more checks over those who exercise undue power & allow those who dont exercise that sort of undue power from State’s intimidation.

I see you went from “monopolistic nature” to “monopoly” in one paragraph to prop up this argument. As established, a market with competing players isn’t monopolistic and no player can really erect any barriers to new social media entrants. And this “undue power”, if we compare social media to new media it seems the new media wins every time. And I’m a bit curious here, if social media really are monopolies/oligopolies there are already laws that can deal with that, why argue for new laws/regulations that are redundant?

In case of TV network example you took (Fox News), its not that straight forward. Atleast TV channels cant break social n/ws of large groups of people that easily & these TV channels cant hold us hostage & undermine our associations. By in case of digital monopolies, not being on these social n/ws implies people are at significant disadvantage wrt whats happening around them & who they are in touch with. The longer they stay, the more control exerted by the network over all of us.

I just want to point out that most people actually get their news from news media/TV networks – so they know what is happening insofar what they are capable to anyway. No one is held prisoner by a social media network, they are held prisoner by what their friends use. In the case of Twitter, there’s a lot of people moving to other platforms and personal networks will also migrate as a secondary effect.

Since people cant move off the n/w because of this monopolistic behaviour enabled by State & Capital collusion, people have every right to coerce him (incl using State as last resort) to compel him to prove he is exercising that undue power responsibly (atleast pretend to exercise it responsibly — like last owners did even if its all smoke & mirrors).

Are you in touch with reality? People have been moving off Twitter in droves to Mastodon-instances.

Also, why should “private property” be held above social good? Why should unconstrained power be held above equity, fairness & justice? “Private property” is just an ideology thats created to benefit who hold undue amount of it to control society. Its an ideology cooked up by rich to control society & we have no good reason to accept that it has any legitimate moral component.

With that argument I do hope you don’t own one bit of property then.

If our decisions have disproportionate impact on other’s lives, we should be compelled to prove we exercised that power with proper due diligence.

And if all social media disappeared tomorrow, many people would be very inconvenienced for a while but it would hardly be life threatening – and that is as much power social media have on us.

By erasing the distinction wrt power exercised by a street hawker vs whats exercised by a monopolist & making everything about “private property”, your argument ignores (intentionally/otherwise) the real world power wielded in society & erases all pragmatic and intelligent distinction we make wrt decision making.

And if Twitter was a monopolist the above would perhaps be somewhat relevant, but as we know, Twitter isn’t.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Musk: Free speech means you're free to say what I agree with!

Funny how public/user safety only seems to matter and be a valid justification for moderation when it’s his safety…

So a deranged individual stalking and jumping on a car that wasn’t at an airport was such a huge problem that it justified nuking an account that tracked the plane and anyone that mentioned it but not enough to file a police report(or at least not file one before posting on social media a bunch)? I’d say there’s a hole in that story but it would probably be more accurate to say there might be some story to that hole.

Musk just needs to admit that his definition of free speech starts and ends at ‘speech I agree with’ and moderation will reflect that, it’s not like it would surprise anyone critical of him or matter to those supporting him who share his definition.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Twitter has always been a bit toxic, yet it was possible to have at least a few civil interactions with those with opposing views — outside of one’s own echo chamber. Under Musk’s leadership, those kinds of interactions, in which users could respectfully agree to disagree on some issues while finding common ground elsewhere, are no longer possible.

Now, the site is dominated by Musk’s loyal army of keyboard warriors, who pay $8 a month just to “own the libs”. Emulating Musk himself, his devoted followers are flooding Twitter with posts that regurgitate meaningless propaganda buzzwords (i.e. “woke left”, “radical left”, “socialists”, “groomers”, “Antifa”, etc, etc) in an attempt to stereotype and vilify anyone who doesn’t conform to their (or Musk’s) way of thinking. Their one-sided, incessant fear and hate mongering has grown tiresome.

Under Musk’s authoritarian ownership of Twitter, the inmates are now truly running the asylum.

Anonymous Coward says:

That chat transcript where Elon tried to defend the bans reads very similarly to the excuses I have seen reddit, discord and forum moderators make to justify random bans.

They will take a normal activity and then spin it as you breaking the rules to justify the ban. The reality is of course, that they wanted to ban you because they felt like it, didn’t like you, or something similar. But they know it will make it look bad, hence, the need to spin it as “merely enforcing the rules”.

For example, on one discord server, it was common for users to spam bot commands in the bot command general to play the hangman game and things like that. This had been going on forever and was clearly an accepted activity for the bot comamnd channel. When I tried using bot commands once a day to set reminders for myself, I was warned to stop doing that becasue it was “spamming”, but spamming hangman game commands dozens of times a day (which some users were known for) was fine becasue it was a “social activity on a discord server”.

When I pointed out that nobody on the server actually used it as a social activity and it was just them solo spamming the commands by themselves, the mod refused to address my point and kept being evasive. Just like what Elon did in the chat transcript.

The same mod kept harrassing me for various things and kept making loud complaints about the times when I went to bed, i don’t know why, but he was really obsessed about my bed time schedule and eventually banned me for saying hi to other server users once a day because it was “spamming”.

It’s just mental gymnastics to justify actions taken to make yourself happy. Elon Musk is acting like a man child who discovered the awesome power of being able to ban people for any reason, any time…basically like the stereotypical immature teenager in charge of a subreddit, discord server or any other communication space.

techflaws (profile) says:

Which, you know, was the kinda thing Elon insisted was the big problem under the last regime, and insisted he was brought in to solve.

Brought in by himself, mind you, claiming to be fixing the bot problem Twitter is supposedly plagued by which appears to have become an afterthought in the last few weeks except to explain polls not going the way Boo!lon aka Space Karen wanted.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re:

As has been pointed out countless times just because you can do something does not necessarily follow that you should, or that you’re immune from criticism for doing it.

I can scratch my hand by smashing it with a hammer but that does not mean people wouldn’t be justified in calling me an idiot for doing so, and if not long before I took the swing I’d called someone else a buffoon for doing that very act and declared that I would never do it they’d be justified in tagging on ‘hypocrite’.

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Rekrul says:

I haven’t read through all the comments, because there are over 100 and BestNetTech’s comment section still looks like absolute shit to me (I guess displaying properly formatted text is just too modern and complex a task for anything but the most recent browsers!), but I wanted to say…

None of this hypocrisy will have the slightest impact on Musk’s supporters because he isn’t banning accounts that THEY like.

It’s exactly like how Trump supporters could scream about all the people breaking the law by crossing the border illegally, but condone everything he did, even when HE broke the law.

Chozen (profile) says:

Re:

“It’s exactly like how Trump supporters could scream about all the people breaking the law by crossing the border illegally, but condone everything he did, even when HE broke the law.”

I think all “Trump Supporters” felt taut Taylor Lorenz should have been banned for doxing Libs of TicTok. It was the unequal application of the rule. Its a lie to say that the right is pro-doxing.

In this case. Musk and other had a PIA, this guy used an algorithm to crack Musk’s and other high profile celebrities’ PIAs, he then demanded $50,000 or a Tesla to take it down.

That’s extortion.

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