NY Post: Fact Checking Is Now Censorship

from the fact-checking-is-more-speech-you-goons dept

This was inevitable, ever since Donald Trump and the MAGA world freaked out when social media’s attempts to fact-check the President were deemed “censorship.” The reaction was both swift and entirely predictable. After all, how dare anyone question Dear Leader’s proclamations, even if they are demonstrably false? It wasn’t long before we started to see opinion pieces from MAGA folks breathlessly declaring that “fact-checking private speech is outrageous.” There were even politicians proposing laws to ban fact-checking.

In their view, the best way to protect free speech is apparently (?!?) to outlaw speech you don’t like.

This trend has only accelerated in recent years. Last year, Congress got in on the game, arguing that fact-checking is a form of censorship that needs to be investigated. Not to be outdone, incoming FCC chair Brendan Carr has made the same argument.

With last week’s announcement by Mark Zuckerberg that Meta was ending its fact-checking program, the anti-fact-checking rhetoric hasn’t slowed down one bit.

The NY Post now has an article with the hilarious headline: “The incredible, blind arrogance of the ‘fact-checking’ censors.”

So let’s be clear here: fact-checking is speech. Fact-checking is not censorship. It is protected by the First Amendment. Indeed, in olden times, when free speech supporters would talk about the “marketplace of ideas” and the “best response to bad speech is more speech,” they meant things like fact-checking. They meant that if someone were blathering on about utter nonsense, then a regime that enabled more speech could come along and fact-check folks.

There is no “censorship” involved in fact-checking. There is only a question of how others respond to the fact checks.

What the MAGA world is upset about is that, in some cases, private entities (who have every right to do this) would look at some fact checks and decide “maybe we shouldn’t promote utter fucking nonsense (or in some cases, potentially dangerous nonsense!) and spread it further”.

This is all still free speech. Some of it is speech about other speech and some of it is consequences from that speech.

But not one lick of it is “censorship.”

Yet this narrative has become so embedded in the MAGA world that the NY Post can write an entire article claiming that “fact-checking censors” exist without ever giving a single actual example of it happening.

There’s a really fun game that the Post Editorial Board is playing here, pretending that they’re just fine with fact-checking, unless it leads to “silencing.”

The real issue, that is, isn’t the checking, it’s the silencing.

But what “silencing” ever actually happened due to fact-checking? And when was it caused by the government (which would be necessary for it to violate the First Amendment)? The answer is none.

The piece whines about a few NY Post articles that had limited reach on Facebook, but that’s Facebook’s own free speech as well, not censorship. Also, it’s not at all clear that any of those issues had anything to do with “fact checking,” rather than a determination that the Post may have violated Facebook’s rules.

It does cite the supposed “censorship” of Trump’s NIH nominee Jay Bhattacharya for the Great Barrington Declaration:

Most notably, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford and his colleagues from Harvard and Oxford got silenced for recommending against mass lockdowns and instead for a focus on protecting only the elderly and other highly vulnerable populations.

Except, as we called out just recently, even Bhattacharya’s colleague who helped put together the Great Barrington Declaration (and who hosted the website) has said flat out that the reason the FB page was taken down had nothing to do with Facebook, but rather anti-vaxxers who brigaded the reporting system, claiming the Great Barrington Declaration was actually a pro-vaccination plot.

The Post goes on with this fun set of words:

Yes, the internet is packed with lies, misrepresentations and half-truths: So is all human conversation.

The only practical answer to false speech is and always been true speech; it doesn’t stop the liars or protect all the suckers, but most people figure it out well enough.

Shutting down debate in the name of “countering disinformation” only serves the liars with power or prestige or at least the right connections.

First off, the standard saying is that the response to false speech should be “more speech” not necessarily “true speech” but more to the point, uh, how do you get that “true speech”? Isn’t it… fact checking? And, if, as the NY Post suggests, the problem here is false speech in the fact checks, then shouldn’t the response be more speech in response rather than silencing the fact checkers?

I mean, their own argument isn’t even internally consistent.

They’re literally saying that we need more “truthful speech” and less “silencing of speech” while cheering on the silencing of organizations who try to provide more truthful speech. It’s a blatant contradiction.

The piece concludes with this bit of nonsense:

PolitiFact and all the rest are welcome to keep going, as long as they’re just equal voices in the conversation; we certainly mean to go on calling out what we see as lies.

Check all the facts you want, as long as you don’t get to silence anyone else.

But… that’s always been the case. Fact checkers have never had the power to “silence anyone else.” They just did their fact checking, provided more speech, and let others decide how to deal with that speech. The Post’s argument is a strawman, railing against a problem that doesn’t actually exist.

In the end, the Post’s piece inadvertently makes the case for more fact-checking, not less. In a world awash with misinformation, we need credible voices providing additional context and correcting the record. That’s the very essence of the free marketplace of ideas.

The Post seems to want a “free marketplace of ideas” where only ideas they agree with are allowed to be expressed. That’s not how free speech works.

Trying to silence voices calling out misinformation in the name of free speech is the height of hypocrisy. The Post should take its own advice – if you disagree with a fact check, respond with more speech, not by celebrating the active silencing of fact checkers you disagree with.

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Comments on “NY Post: Fact Checking Is Now Censorship”

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That One Guy (profile) says:

'Well call out every lie we see(so long as it doesn't upset the Dear Leader)!'

PolitiFact and all the rest are welcome to keep going, as long as they’re just equal voices in the conversation; we certainly mean to go on calling out what we see as lies.

A claim I have but one word for in response: Liar.

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n00bdragon (profile) says:

I just cannot wrap my head around why everyone is lining up around the block to go to bat for the clown. If Trump were the sort of person to reward his minions for their loyalty I could understand, but as far as I can tell he has never been particularly loyal to anyone who gives him stuff or does things for him. Currying favor does nothing if he’s going to throw you under the bus the nanosecond a better deal (or hell, just something more entertaining) comes along.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: 'If we give the tyrant unchecked power surely he'll be nicer to us.'

Cowardice and a particularly stupid version of self-preservation.

Convicted felon Trump is well known to be spiteful and petty among his other charming character traits and they’re hoping that if they grovel and kiss his ass enough when(not ‘if’) he’s weaponizing the government to punish his ‘enemies’ he’ll notice their subservience and pass them by.

What makes it particularly stupid is that like you note he has a demonstrated history of throwing even his biggest ‘supporters’ under the bus for even the slightest bit of gain or for even a hint of ‘disloyalty’ so all they’re doing is giving him even more rope to hang them by by not even trying to stand up to him.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Hmmm. Mike if the NY Post was being truthful that fact checking is censorship (LOL), then we don’t have to worry about them spouting any more nonsense. Because their own argument is that this article silences them.

Sadly, as you pointed out, the arguments lack internal consistency, and I guess that’s the sort of drivel their intended audience wants.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

In all your gloating, you seem to forget a simple fact: When Republicans take control of the whole-ass federal government, they also take whole-ass responsibility for everything the federal government does under their watch, which means Republicans⁠—and the people who voted them into office⁠—will have to take the whole-ass blame for anything and everything that goes wrong.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

When anything and everything the government could be doing to help citizens doesn’t go right (or doesn’t happen at all), that will be the fault of Republicans. Rising retail prices, botched (or nonexistent) disaster relief, a public health crisis that could’ve been prevented via vaccinations, the destruction of public education⁠—if any of that happens, it will happen on the watch of Republicans in general and Donald Trump in particular.

You were so interested in installing fascists into the office of the presidency that you forgot about how they still have to govern the country. Republican governance is all in their hands now; they can’t blame Democrats for anything that Republicans fuck up. And if you think Republicans won’t fuck up, you must be smoking some dank shit.

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bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

Honestly, the most annoying part of this for me is that it renders “censorship” a meaningless term.

No, MAGAts, someone telling you you’re wrong—even if they themselves are wrong about that—is not censorship. It doesn’t become censorship if someone else then acts on that fact-check to moderate or censor you, either. That’s just pure speech (not even expressional conduct), and speech (absent conduct) is not and cannot be censorship.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

is like watching a disease argue that white blood cells are threats and should be chemically stopped from being produced in the body.

In a fit of irony, pretty sure injecting bleach into your veins[0] would be a REALLY good approximate of that.

[0] Never ever do this. If you don’t see the obvious reasons, let me just tell you: if you do this everyone you consider an enemy wins, and you lose.

TKnarr (profile) says:

This to me is just the final step in something I’ve seen going back several decades. It used to be, back when I was in elementary school, that if eg. a company had said they couldn’t and wouldn’t supply X and one of their salesmen went and said, “Sure, we can supply X for you.”, the response from the customer was “You’re lying.”. It gradually became less and less acceptable to say that, instead you had to phrase it elliptically as “Your company says that’s not correct.”. Now we’ve arrived at the end state where even the implication that the salesman’s statement might not be entirely correct is unacceptable. I notice too that it’s always the same kind of person that’d be that kind of salesman who want this end state. Makes sense, if it’s acceptable to call them out then it limits their ability to sell.

Time, I think, to go back to it being acceptable to call a lie a lie.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Hey, idiot.

If it blocks your meme, link whatever, makes people click past a “this has been determined ‘false'” splash page, makes it so that content shows in feeds less — keep in mind “fact checkers” get things wrong all the time, often on purpose (i.e. it’s just propaganda)….. that is absolutely censorship.

Basically everyone else except you and a few of your smooth brained readers realizes this, you goddamned m0r0n.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

If it blocks your meme, link whatever, makes people click past a “this has been determined ‘false’” splash page, makes it so that content shows in feeds less — keep in mind “fact checkers” get things wrong all the time, often on purpose (i.e. it’s just propaganda)….. that is absolutely censorship.

Did any of those actions somehow prevent someone from expressing their speech outside of the platform that did any or all of those things? If the answer is “no”: It’s not censorship.

Blocking a meme based on its content, blocking a link for any reason, putting up a fact check pop-up, and fucking with algorithms to deprioritize posts based on their content are all forms of editorial discretion. And much like with letters to the editor of a newspaper, the person who creates content that platforms refuse to publish/host can always make a copy of their content and post it on any site willing to publish/host that content. Being the “victim” of content moderation doesn’t make you a victim of censorship; believing otherwise makes you a fool who believes in the “I have been silenced” fallacy.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Just saying “that is absolutely censorship” doesn’t mean it is censorship

If it blocks your meme, link whatever, makes people click past a “this has been determined ‘false’” splash page, makes it so that content shows in feeds less — keep in mind “fact checkers” get things wrong all the time, often on purpose (i.e. it’s just propaganda)….. that is absolutely censorship.

Here’s the thing: The fact-checkers do not do any of that. All the fact-checkers do is state whether a claim is true or false and why they believe that. The stuff you’re complaining about is the platforms’ decisions, not the fact-checkers’.

As such, even if I granted your claim that even hiding content behind a “this is false” splash page (something I can’t say I’ve ever seen) or downranking content so it gets recommended less is censorship (something I vehemently disagree with, especially since it’s private platforms we’re talking about), that still wouldn’t make the fact-checking itself censorship even if the fact-checkers were deliberately making false statements. It could be defamation, but defamation is not censorship.

Moreover, the NYP article makes no such distinction. It explicitly calls out even having a tag attached that says the post is false as being censorship, even if there is no downranking, blocking, or hiding of the content at issue. Therefore, even granting everything you say here, it doesn’t actually address the article at issue here, which is the thing being complained about.

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Anonymous Coward says:

The downside to “fact” checking is when it is done to mask criminal conduct, such as the origins of Covid-19.

While there was a written plan to create the virus with Project Defuse, the government engaged in parallel construction with the debunked “the pangolin did it” conspiracy theory.

If there was a man-made origin, that would imply that all deaths occurred at the hand of another, and that a pathogen destructive to human health has been added to the environment.

The “fact” checking that occurred relating to Covid-19 origins was done to conceal criminal conduct. And the “fact” checking was reportedly done at the instigation of government.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

While there was a written plan to create the virus with Project Defuse, the government engaged in parallel construction with the debunked “the pangolin did it” conspiracy theory.

  1. “The pangolin did it” isn’t a conspiracy theory. Even if it turned out to be false, that wouldn’t be a conspiracy theory simply because there are no allegations of a conspiracy involved.
  2. Even if the “China engineered the virus” theory turns out to be true, that isn’t inconsistent with the “pangolin” theory. However the breakout began, it’s clear that a) it was not intended to occur, at least not at that time and place, and b) it began at a Chinese food market selling pangolin meat. However the virus was created to begin with, it appears that the first infections were from consuming pangolin meat. Whether it got to the pangolin naturally or from a failure to contain the virus to a lab, “the pangolin did it” theory would still be accurate. It hasn’t been debunked.
  3. From what I can tell, Project Defuse was about experimenting on viruses of a similar type to COVID-19 in order to better understand how they spread and mutate, not about creating any specific virus. So no, that is not a written plan to create the virus. I will grant it makes it plausible that COVID-19 was the result of Chinese experiments and a subsequent breach of containment, but it doesn’t prove that COVID-19 was deliberately created. If anything, it appears that it was a result of random mutations over the course of the experiment that were not deliberately induced, and then it escaped containment somehow.

If there was a man-made origin, that would imply that all deaths occurred at the hand of another, […]

No, it doesn’t. You’re assuming intent that is not in evidence. And even if it came from Project Deluge, that doesn’t make it man-made. That, again, requires there to be specific intent to create the virus.

[…] and that a pathogen destructive to human health has been added to the environment.

I mean, that was always the case even if it wasn’t man-made. It wasn’t there before, and now it’s there, so it was added to the environment even if it was nature doing the adding. And that it is a pathogen destructive to human health was never disputed by those pushing against the lab theory.

The “fact” checking that occurred relating to Covid-19 origins was done to conceal criminal conduct.

Even if I was to grant that the fact-checking concealed criminal conduct (and I’m not convinced that that’s the only or most likely possibility), it still doesn’t follow that the fact-checking was done to conceal criminal conduct.

Though, really, even assuming that COVID-19 did originate from Project Deluge, I’m not convinced that there was any criminal conduct involved (save perhaps some criminal negligence, maybe).

And the “fact” checking was reportedly done at the instigation of government.

FB asked the CDC whether certain claims about the virus were true. The CDC said that, at that time, there was insufficient evidence to conclude that the virus came from a lab, and even less evidence that it was deliberately engineered. (Note: “it came from a lab” doesn’t mean it was deliberately engineered.) FB responded by moderating content claiming that it did and was, sometimes by removal, sometimes by downranking, and sometimes by adding a note.

So no, it wasn’t “done at the instigation of the government”. FB asked if something was true, the CDC said, “We don’t have evidence to support that,” and FB moderated posts based on that information.

Rocky (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Isn’t amazing how some people can rationalize obvious bullshit, that happens when their mental horizon is like their overgrown backyard full of led-painted toys.

If the statement “And the “fact” checking was reportedly done at the instigation of government” is true, that means every government in the world put their thumbs on the scale. Ie, a world-spanning conspiracy to hide the origins of the COVID-19 virus, even by governments that hates the Chinese, without no one discovering it.

But I guess this particular person propagating this bullshit haven’t even thought that there exists countries and governments outside the USA that have vastly different goals and agendas and that would happily use any wrongdoings by China to attack them.

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Jason says:

Typical

This is typical behavior of the so called fact checkers. Take an existing claim and tweak it, sometimes ever so slightly so you can claim that the ones making the claim are liars.

No one claimed fact checkers themselves were censoring. No one. The ‘fact checkers’ were often not actually fact checkers. They would find an article online that disagreed with the statement and point to that. That didnt mean the article they pointed to was actually true, but they would claim it was. For example, the ‘science’ behind masks, 6ft rule, etc. At this point even Fauci has admitted they made it all up. But the fact checkers are never held accountable for their ‘mistakes’. The mainstream media and politicians are never silenced like regular people when they post things that werent true. You were only silenced if you disagreed with the establishment. And it was often done at the behest of the government. The twitter files and Zuckerberg confirmed this.

Remember the ‘fact checking’ that Hunter Bidens laptop was disinfo? Even though Hunter never denied it. Those 50 ex spies saying it was despite never seeing any evidence at all? All lies. Remember the pee tape? Lies.

Jesus, how much do these people need to lie to you for you to stop taking them at their word?

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

No one claimed fact checkers themselves were censoring. No one.

The NYP literally did, as is Matthew Bennett here.

The ‘fact checkers’ were often not actually fact checkers. They would find an article online that disagreed with the statement and point to that.

That doesn’t make them not fact checkers.

That didnt mean the article they pointed to was actually true, but they would claim it was.

Even granting this, being incompetent at fact-checking doesn’t mean that they aren’t fact-checkers.

For example, the ‘science’ behind masks, 6ft rule, etc. At this point even Fauci has admitted they made it all up.

False. Some of the policy recommendations were “figure things out as we go” (which is not the same as making them all up), but the science was largely established long beforehand.

But the fact checkers are never held accountable for their ‘mistakes’.

You haven’t even pointed to an actual mistake. More importantly, you’re holding them accountable the only way they should be right now: more speech.

The mainstream media and politicians are never silenced like regular people when they post things that werent true.

That’s on the platforms. The fact-checkers checked their posts as well, so that’s an entirely separate issue.

You were only silenced if you disagreed with the establishment.

Plenty of disagreement wasn’t silenced. And you weren’t even silenced.

And it was often done at the behest of the government. The twitter files and Zuckerberg confirmed this.

As has been pointed out multiple times on this site, this is entirely false.

Remember the ‘fact checking’ that Hunter Bidens laptop was disinfo? Even though Hunter never denied it.

He did, though. He just didn’t deny that some of the content came from his cloud account. He did deny most of the rest, though.

And it was never that the laptop was disinformation. It’s that it was really sketchy.

Those 50 ex spies saying it was despite never seeing any evidence at all?

No, I honestly don’t remember such a claim having ever been made.

Remember the pee tape?

You are aware that most people who mention that didn’t generally believe that there was ever an actual pee tape and were just joking, right? You’re taking that way too seriously there.

Jesus, how much do these people need to lie to you for you to stop taking them at their word?

Let me know when you can point to an actual lie that was taken seriously, rather than something that became just a joke, something which was a mistaken conclusion, or something which is not even really false.

Like, I’m sure there are lies. You’re just really bad at picking out examples. And this isn’t about believing them. This is about the 1A issues with the government getting involved in it and whether it is censorship as the article claims it to be.

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Maarten "merethan" says:

"Deamplified"

Fact checking is fine. Check as much facts as you want. On anyone you want.

But that’s not what happened. What happened is people getting posts removed, hidden, accounts demonetized, deamplified, people deplatformed (call it whatever you want, even Orwellian terms like these last two) for holding the wrong opinion.

Even by fact-checkers own lingo it’s perfectly fine to remove true straight up honest stuff if it serves a narrative they not like. They invented a word for it: Malinformation.

And this stuff very much was centrally cooked up and coordinated, by entities getting their money from taxes.

There’s a word for that too.

Everyone of course is free to pretend it didn’t happen.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

What happened is people getting posts removed, hidden, accounts demonetized, deamplified, people deplatformed (call it whatever you want, even Orwellian terms like these last two) for holding the wrong opinion.

So what? Meta’s platforms, Twitter, and literally every other social media service can do those things without government interference. They have an absolute right to decide whether to add their own speech to that third-party speech (e.g., Community Notes), delete that speech for violating the TOS, deamplify that speech by fucking around with algorithms, or leave it alone. That includes speech that expresses opinions some would consider distasteful or hateful. If you want that to not be the case, go start your own social media service and refuse to moderate anything but illegal speech. But you should know that such an approach means you’ll run headfirst into at least one of these two problems: the Content Moderation Learning Curve or the “Worst People” Problem.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Strange, all the local dogs started barking...

But that’s not what happened. What happened is people getting posts removed, hidden, accounts demonetized, deamplified, people deplatformed (call it whatever you want, even Orwellian terms like these last two) for holding the wrong opinion.

Which ‘opinions’ would those be, and please, be specific.

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