Is Gavin Newsom Attacking Walgreens For Its Choices Different From DeSantis Attacking Disney?

from the governors-shouldn't-punish-companies-for-speech dept

There has been some back and forth over the past week regarding Walgreens and how it’s handling the distribution and dispensing of the pharmaceutical Mifepristone, which is prescribed by doctors for early term abortions. In February, a bunch of anti-abortion Attorneys General sent Walgreens a letter threatening the company if it chose to make the drug available. In response, Walgreens sent a short reply letter saying that it wasn’t planning on dispending Mifepristone in any state where it was illegal.

But, there were some confusing statements, including implying that it also would not distribute the pills in states where it was legal but where the state Attorney General objected to the distribution (which would be the case in states like Alaska, Iowa, Kansas, and Montana).

This resulted in further blowups of people on both sides, and Walgreens keeps changing its story trying to keep both sides of the debate from getting too angry.

Jumping into all of this was California governor, Gavin Newsom, who announced that the state would end a $54 million contract with Walgreens over its decisions. He was fairly explicit that his decision here was because of Walgreen’s unwillingness to speak up:

Newsom said he was nixing the contract in part because Walgreens could not provide clear answers about its policy.

“They were unwilling or incapable of doing anything more than repeating a statement that only reinforces the ambiguity,” Newsom said. “That made me conclude they’re not serious about this, and we are.”

Personally, I think Walgreens is making a mistake in how it’s handling this, but I think none of the politicians look good here. I tend to believe that medical decisions should not be political at all, and such decisions should be left up to the patient and doctor and no one else. And, as nice as it would be for Walgreens to stand on principle and defy the law, that’s unlikely to happen. The decision to avoid states where the drug is legal, but disfavored by the AG is, just generally, a bad decision, but the kind of thing companies like Walgreens are likely to do to avoid the risk and liability associated with having a state AG going after you.

And, yes, the AGs own actions here are shameful, but this is state AGs, it’s kinda what they do across the political spectrum.

And that brings us to Newsom’s actions. I get that people who are pro-choice are cheering it on, and I understand why. But, it strikes me as pretty similar to Florida governor Ron DeSantis deliberately punishing Disney for coming out against one of his bills.

In both cases, it appears to be governors taking actions against companies for their speech. And, as we keep having to say, it’s wrong for elected officials to punish companies for speech no matter who is doing or what the speech is.

So, even if you are mad at Walgreens for its policy — hell, even if you personally support a boycott of Walgreens — you should still be concerned that politicians are looking to use state power to punish companies that get caught up in these ridiculous battles. Because, of course, it’s not going to stop here. Newsom may be supporting a position you agree with, or DeSantis may be supporting a position you agree with. But the next governor to do this may not be.

I get that everything is now politicized. And I don’t mind the idea that companies these days may often need to be more transparent about where they stand on political issues, no matter how ridiculous. But, cheering on one governor for punishing a company for staking out the “wrong” position seems dangerous. It’s endorsing this kind of activity from others, who will use it against companies you do support.

The 1st Amendment is there for a reason. Individuals, and other companies, have every right to make their own voices heard, and to boycott companies like Walgreens (or Disney) should they so choose. But the 1st Amendment is there to prevent state actors from doing so in their official capacity.

And yet, here we are, with Newsom appearing to do exactly that. Indeed, in some ways, Newsom’s action here is more extreme than DeSantis’, in that DeSantis at least worked with the Florida legislature to get a bill to punish Disney for its speech (which still should be unconstitutional). Newsom, on the other hand, did this unilaterally.

I get that many people won’t agree with me, mainly because they disagree with Walgreens position and support Newsom, but that’s kinda the point I’m trying to raise. This shouldn’t be about who you support and which “side” you’re on, but the general principle, as laid out in the 1st Amendment, that the government shall not engage in punishing anyone for their speech.

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Companies: disney, walgreens

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Comments on “Is Gavin Newsom Attacking Walgreens For Its Choices Different From DeSantis Attacking Disney?”

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alanbleiweiss (profile) says:

Stop making me reconsider my views

LOL Valid points worth considering. In spite of my belief I’m “above the noise”, my first thought was to shake my fist in the air and say “no, this is different! Newsom seeks to protect human rights!”. Yet they both seek to change corporate policies through the use of governmental budgets and powers.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

cheering on one governor for punishing a company for staking out the “wrong” position seems dangerous

Just as I was willing to say that Elizabeth Warren was in the wrong for threatening Amazon over “snotty tweets” and selling books with possible COVID mis- and disinformation, I’m willing to say that Newsom is in the wrong here. Even if I generally agree that Walgreens’s cover-our-asses moves are patently ridiculous, a state government sending a message that it will punish a private business over lawful speech and lawful conduct⁠—which are happening in other states, no less!⁠—is absolutely a bunch of bullshit.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Show me where I said either of those things. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

What’s that? I didn’t say either of those things? Good, now that that’s settled…

I think a state choosing to terminate a contract with a company based on conduct should happen specifically because the conduct in question is morally heinous or ethically questionable. Walgreens choosing not to sell a product in a place where that product has been made illegal is, in the broadest possible sense, neither of those things. A state government threatening to cut ties with Walgreens over that behavior, especially when it’s not a state asking Walgreens to no longer sell that product, is some God Damned Bullshit™. Such a move reeks of punishing Walgreens for being compliant with the laws of other states: “Nice contract you got here. It’d be a shame if we had to burn it because you chose not to sell this product in all those states that told you not to sell it there…”

That shit isn’t acceptable when a Republican does it. For what reason should it be acceptable when a Democrat does it?

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:2

So let me get this clear Walgreens withholding lifesaving drugs to appease politically motivated AG’s isn’t morally wrong but Gavin Newsom not wanting to to business with themn is.

You didn’t get it clear. If Walgreens stop selling a drug in a state where it is forbidden, that’s not withholding the drug in any kind of sense – it’s following the law.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

So let me get this clear Walgreens withholding lifesaving drugs to appease politically motivated AG’s isn’t morally wrong but Gavin Newsom not wanting to to business with themn is.

Show me where I said that. Go ahead, show me exactly where I said that.

I didn’t? Good, glad we got that settled, now shut the fuck up.

(In other words: I can dislike Walgreens’s position and still think Newsom’s actions are bullshit. The positions are not mutually exclusive.)

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I think a state choosing to terminate a contract with a company based on conduct should happen specifically because the conduct in question is morally heinous or ethically questionable.

You said it right here, bro. Walgreens kowtowing to AGs in states where it’s still legal to sell the meds is morally heinous and ethically shitty. But apparently in your brain it’s not?

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

The calls for a parallel economy grow by the day.

Why not just go ahead and call for a “national divorce” like Marge Three-Names, Koby?

And while you’re here…

Yes or no: Do you believe the government should have the legal right to compel any privately owned interactive web service into hosting legally protected speech that the owners/operators of said service don’t want to host?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Koby,

Did you ever learn why Facebook can’t use §230 to dismiss a lawsuit against Facebook’s own speech yet?

The calls for a parallel economy grow by the day

Red states would not survive on their own as they get tons of money from the feds, which comes from….. blue states.

Source: Democratic-leaning blue states tend to be wealthier and pay more to the federal government than they get. In contrast, Republican-leaning red states tend to have less wealth and receive more federal government funds than they pay.

It’s almost like red states are on welfare paid for by blue states. Hmmm, imagine that.

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Koby (profile) says:

Re: Re:

Red states would not survive on their own as they get tons of money from the feds, which comes from….. blue states.

Along with that federal funding typically comes a number of mandates and obligations. Medicaid and food stamps are examples. In the event of a national divorce, red states likely wouldn’t choose to adhere to the mandates, especially without funding. Blue states, on the other hand, would attract recipients, the same way LA and SF are attracting the homeless. It would relieve the non-participating states of the necessity. Those who voted for the program can deal with the fallout. You don’t need funding when it’s not your problem.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

In the event of a national divorce, red states likely wouldn’t choose to adhere to the mandates, especially without funding.

What does it say about those states if they would willingly refuse to accept money that would help prevent their citizens from dying of starvation?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

What does it say about those states if they would willingly refuse to accept money that would help prevent their citizens from dying of starvation?

  1. I think it’s real silly you think that’s what that money actually does.
  2. in the case of “national divorce” you think it’s gonna be the red states that have trouble feeding themselves? giggle

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:4

That you would laugh at the theoretical suffering of millions of people, especially because they happen to live in states with Democrat-controlled legislatures, says nothing good about you.

I’m amused by this attempt to paint me as the bad guy, but I was laughing at your ignorance, dumbass.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

In the case of “national divorce” you think it’s gonna be the red states that have trouble feeding themselves? giggle

I think I will be just fine here on the west coast.

Considering the agricultural output of WA, OR, and CA, we’ll be fine.

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Violet Aubergine (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Hmmm, CA-OR-WA would control all the ports on the Pacific Coast and you think they’d go hungry? Those of us in red states might have enough grains and legumes but all the consumer electronics and clothes that come into America would have to come in through TX or the East Coast to avoid massive taxes placed on goods going to red states to get back all the money they’ve spent over the centuries supporting us rural red states. And without those pesky blue states to regulate them I can guarantee American ag standards will drop to and below third world standards in red states. And if you think otherwise there’s this groovy book called The Jungle by Upton Sinclair you should check out first. Unregulated capitalism will always become a lawless den of deception and lies where there is no recourse when products kill you. That’s the GOP dream because they’re too lazy and stupid to compete on the merits so they have to stack the deck in their favor.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I think it’s real silly you think that’s what that money actually does.

It won’t be when you figure out how the poverty levels in red states break down. Those people will end up blaming someone.

in the case of “national divorce” you think it’s gonna be the red states that have trouble feeding themselves? giggle

Yeah. Especially once you secure your borders, and its only the inbred white hicks left to pick melons. They can barely read in some of those states and you think they’re going to be able to navigate fruit and a stem?

I could care less about the threat of ‘civil war’ from a bunch of morons who can be easily convinced to eat horse dewormer as a medical treatment, who thought it was brilliant to livestream their felonies on 1/6, and who still donate to a TV ‘millionaire’ who seems to constantly need donations.

Before getting ahead of yourselves, I’d make sure you got some of the basics down first. Like making sure you can wipe your own asses, for example.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

What does it say about those states if they would willingly refuse to accept money that would help prevent their citizens from dying of starvation?

And even when the willingly accept it, they would still rather split that money up between their wealthy friends and political allies.

To wit: Brett Favre with Mississippi governor, taking federal money that should have been used for poor people in Mississippi, but using it for themselves.

So even when they willingly take federal money, they still don’t want to use it in ways to prevent their citizens from dying of starvation.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

That article has been widely debunked. It includes things like military bases and national parks that don’t at all go TO a state nor it’s residents, just are spent there.

It also includes a lot of mandates that the red states never wanted. At least that money is spent ON them. But it’s a little like the liberal argument that because we pay for your healthcare (which we didn’t want) we know get to decide what you eat, smoke, etc to reduce costs.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

That article has been widely debunked

Where and how?

You saying it’s been debunked doesn’t make it so.

How about this one: Red states dominate the top 10. Eight of the 10 states most dependent on the federal government traditionally vote Republican.. Has that been debunked?

Or how about this one: Blue states are less dependent on federal government than red states.

I could go on and on…

Until you provide concrete evidence that debunks these articles, then I will just consider what you say amounts to nothing more than a stinking pile of shit.

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Koby (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

The leftists also don’t consider the alternatives. I’ve been in line at the food store, seeing folks buying steaks and microwaveable convenience foods with a snaps card, and then pull out a credit card for another transaction for some non-qualifying items. The entitlement system is fraught with fraud. If there’s money for booze and lottery tickets, then there’s a way to switch to lower priced homemade cooking using staple foods. You wont starve on that.

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Koby (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

If people reply to Koby, that‘s proof that he is being shadowbanned

The falsifiable case would be myself not seeing the post, yet there would be replies with a timestamp in the intervening hours before I did. So if people DID reply promptly, it would actually be proof that I was NOT shadowbanned.

People replying, but unable to do so for several hours, is the situation for how shadowbanning works.

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TKnarr (profile) says:

I think in principle there’s no difference, and it’s entirely acceptable for a governor to try to influence a company by refusing to do business with it because of it’s policies.

Where I think the two are radically different is that Newsom has a plan in place for what to do if Walgreens won’t clarify their position in an acceptable way, one that doesn’t leave the state in a massive financial bind. DeSantis barged in and started throwing his weight around without any thought to what the consequences would be, leaving the state to now have to scramble to figure out how to avoid having to foot the bill for Disney’s bond debt.

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CSMcDonald (profile) says:

One difference..

I don’t like Newsom’s posturing, but he’s just refusing do do business with a company. DeSantis is threatening to ruin a company by not allowing it to manage it’s parks and property if they don’t change their content to suit him instead of the market that consumes the product – with a hand picked board that includes a man who believes tap water makes people gay. So I’m going to give DeSantis a bit of an award for being slightly worse than Newsom.

danderbandit (profile) says:

Re: One difference..

That is a good point. As much as it is the company’s right to sell or not sell what it wants, it is also the purchasers right to do so, or not, from any company for any reason. I don’t think that being a government and announcing the policy publicly changes that. They are letting the public know how the public’s money is being spent. With a little grandstanding for sure.

My other quibble with the article is “medical decisions should not be political at all, and such decisions should be left up to the patient and doctor and no one else”. The pharmacist may be a doctor but they are not the ones making this decision, it is the corporate managers. And they aren’t anybody’s doctor.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Refusing to do business is a very different animal than actually interfering (and punishing his own constituents with a higher tax burden). Newsom’s situation is very different than Trump, DeSantis, and Elizabeth Warren’s threatening or interfering with an actual company based on what it says. Walgreens isn’t supporting or not supporting some legislation here. Newsom’s decision is directly related to Walgreens’ business decisions. As long as the market wants to keep healthcare privatized, they need to accept that the government (representing the people) is a customer too, and they also have the freedom of whom they want to do business with.

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Kinetic Gothic says:

I would disagree that Newsom’s actions are more extreme, just because they’re taken by the Governor without the Legislature, if anything the Florida Legislature’s actions are more worrisome precisely because the legislature got in on retaliating against Disney, when their purpose is in part to serve as a check on executive brainfarts The reverse is also True, as a Governor checks the excess of a legislature as well, when the two of them team up that leaves only the courts to protect us. deciding who to award government contracts to state agencies is the prerogative of the executive branch. It’s done all the time for a wide variety of reasons. In either case what’s -really- worrisome here is the subset of AG’s who decided to preemptively threaten a company with criminal indictment for distributing a product that remained legal in their state.

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Anonymous Coward says:

I would say the two Governors are acting differently.

From what I can tell the Governor of California is saying that he is concerned about working with a company that can’t be clear about it’s policies.

He’s not saying that he won’t work with Walgreens just because he disagrees with their decision to not sell certain drugs in states where those drugs are legal. He’s saying make up your mind or we can’t work with you.

Whereas it was quite clear that the Florida Governor was punishing a company for disagreeing with his policy.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Governors like Newsom refusing to let his state do business with corporations that bend the knee to pro-lifers is good. This is nowhere near the same thing as DeSantis throwing a fit at Disney because he’s a bigoted, horrible man. These situations are not the same. There is in fact a difference between good things and bad things.

Protecting and speaking out for the reproductive right to choose via refusing to do business with pro-lifers and those that bend the knee to them is a good thing. Newsom is well within his rights to make these moves, and no principles or unwritten rules of decorum or procedure are being violated here.

Going after a company with zero plan, basically wanting to raze it to the ground and remake it in one’s own bigoted image, like what DeSantis wants to do with Disney, is a bad thing.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

These situations are not the same.

They actually are.

CA is saying a company is not “woke” enough, and FL is saying a company is too “woke”

And before you jump at me about using the term “woke”, I am only using it as a simple means to convey the complex and differing circumstances being attacked by these governors.

That Anonymous Coward (profile) says:

The pandering is strong with these politicians.

I see people screaming calling out Walgreens, like a corporation is required to engage in whats going to be insane legal hijinks to signal they care…
Protip: They care about MONEY and the lawsuits (bogus or not & having to appeal them through the courts to finally be vindicated) will cost more than than not stocking the pills.

Ooooh he cancelled a contract… he’s so awesome.

His actions change nothing and make him look as deranged as DeathSantis.
Do what I want or else!!!!

People need to stop expecting corporations will do anything, other than the bare min, to appease consumers.

You want the pills in your state?
Start recall petitions
Call out the party of smaller government has decided they get to make medical decisions based on their religious beliefs.
Better yet, stop having sex (not because I am a prude) but because if you grab them by their blue balls and ask them if they really want to not get laid ever again you might drive home the point.

Besides the pills are about to be outlawed by that 1 fscked in the head trump appointee in TX who tried to hide the fscking hearing from the public.

In the grand scheme of things Walgreens isn’t anything to worry about… perhaps worry that a federal judge who tried to outlaw HIV meds, gay people, transpeople, is about to stop the pills from being available while he looks for any tiny excuse to override another branch of government and then we can have the appeals and the appeals and the attempt to get scotus to reign in this madness and well…

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Some Kind of Coward says:

Newsom's actions seem justifiable

Under the assumption that the California governor has the power to unilaterally manage state contracts in the way Newsom has, his actions can be viewed as more justifiable than DeSantis’s.

The contract with Walgreens is specifically intended to provide medical care, and these ambiguous and mealy-mouth statements by Walgreen’s cast doubt on the comprehensiveness of the medical care they would provide under the contract. Specifically, it’s far from clear that Walgreen’s would dispense Mifepristone to female inmates in California for the duration of the contract. So it seems reasonable for Newsom to want to establish a contract with a company that seems to be solidly in line with the principle of providing any drugs that are legally prescribed.

Walgreen’s “speech” may be protected under the first amendment, but when the speech suggests that the company might not reliably fulfill obligations under a contract, cannot that speech be considered when evaluating the company for forming a contract?

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Matthew M Bennett says:

He's literally punishing the company for following the law.

In the the states where you say “it’s legal but AGs object” you’re lying, again. It’s expressly illegal to distribute the drug through the mail, anywhere in the US. There are also sate laws against it separate from abortion and there is the issue of medical licensing. |

So no, Newson isn’t punishing them for speech, it’s way worse. He’s literally punishing them for just not breaking the law in other states.

DeSantis did punish Disney for speech, and that’s wrong on principal, but he also threatened to take away (and DID modify) a special exemption that I don’t really should exist to start with. The whole thing had me very conflicted.

Now, admit that the federal government engineered a censorship by proxy scheme, you fucking asshat.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re:

admit that the federal government engineered a censorship by proxy scheme

Show us credible proof that such a thing happened and I’ll be happy to admit it. But keep in mind that you must link specifically to actual proof that actually says what you claim it says. Linking to a Twitter account and expecting someone else to do your work for you will not be accepted as a show of proof.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Because many of the points are split between a series of tweets. (they’re numbered) If share one tweet you’ll pick apart half a thought, which is really the only reason you’re asking, anyway. You KNOW the evidence is there, you just want to pretend it doesn’t say what it does.

It’s really quite easy to scroll down a little bit.

Do some work or STFU.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Because many of the points are split between a series of tweets.

So what? Nothing is stopping you from linking to multiple tweets. Literally all it takes is pointing out what text is in what tweet, then linking to the tweet in question.

If share one tweet you’ll pick apart half a thought, which is really the only reason you’re asking, anyway.

If you link to multiple tweets, I’m going to pick them apart if I feel they deserve that treatment. Whether I pick them apart as a whole or as separate thoughts is irrelevant. But if one part of the information doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, odds are good that the rest of the information will be similarly lacking in credibility.

You KNOW the evidence is there, you just want to pretend it doesn’t say what it does.

If it says what you claim it says, I’ll say so. But I’m not going to do your work for you. You can either link the tweets and point out the relevant text or concede that the evidence doesn’t go in your favor, but no amount of insulting me or demanding that I do your work for you will make me do your work for you. You made the claim, so you have to cite the evidence for it.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4 Hitchen's Razor is such a time saver

There truly is no bigger read flag for ‘I know I can’t provide evidence to support the claim I just made’ quite like someone insisting that the other side do their homework for them so it blows me away how frequent people out themselves as full of shit by trying that trick.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

If they choose not to provide those assurances, CA should not renew a contract that is expiring in May.

Since California law doesn’t ban the product Walgreens is banned from selling in other states, I don’t see how that would be a problem. And if Newsom wanted to have those assurances, he could’ve chosen a much more…diplomatic method of asking for them.

Rocky says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Regardless of how pathetically Wallgreens was waffling, Newsom asking the company to essentially take sides or else is certainly not diplomatic in any sense.

From my viewpoint this is the government punishing someone for their speech, which in this case is Newsom letting a contract lapse.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

The contract is expiring in May and Newsom said that if Walgreens doesn’t clarify their position the contract will not be renewed which is all perfectly legal and ethical.

If the contract renewal is dependent on Walgreens taking a specific position on a specific issue that doesn’t actually affect the state of California, that might be legal, but it sure as shit isn’t ethical by any means.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

Showing corporations the door and denying them a contract when they’re saying mixed things about supplying people with reproductive healthcare meds even where it’s legal, and otherwise bending the knee to the GOP on reproductive rights? That’s ethical and morally correct, actually. Gavin Newsom is on the money.

Can we please remember that this is all about pro-lifers wanting to deny people reproductive healthcare and the right to choose?

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:4

I do remember that. But here’s the thing: Newsom is using the threat of a lapsed contract with Walgreens to coerce Walgreens into either saying or doing something that will just so happen to change the governor’s mind about that contract. What I think about Walgreens’s decision in re: Mifepristone is irrelevant to the question of whether Newsom is in the right. What he’s doing may be legal, but it sure as shit looks unethical to me.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

Nope, sorry. Government using their power to coerce corporations into beneficial decisions, such as continuing to provide reproductive health care meds in places where it’s legal, and getting them to make their stance clear on this stuff, is good and ethical actually.

Shit is getting scary for people who are targets of pro-lifers and the GOP in general. I’d like for Democratic states to put more pressure on corporations to grow spines and not acquiesce to the demands of people who are, quite frankly, Christian domestic terrorists.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Nope, sorry. Government using their power to coerce corporations into beneficial decisions,

Is treating choices that they disagree with the same as breaking the law. Do you really want to live in theocracy, where the government tells you what to think about everything, and uses force to compel you ta say what they want you to say?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Theocracy is what the pro-lifers and the GOP want. Like I said, shit is getting scary. A Democratic governor putting the screws to a corporation that seems like it’s gonna start withholding reproductive health care meds even where they’re legal, trying to get the corporation to clarify their position and hopefully change their mind, that doesn’t bother me. On a sliding scale of governments using the power invested in them for good or for evil, what Newsom is doing here with Walgreens is on the good side.

There is, in fact, a difference between good things and bad things.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:8

A Democratic governor putting the screws to a corporation that seems like it’s gonna start withholding reproductive health care meds even where they’re legal, trying to get the corporation to clarify their position and hopefully change their mind, that doesn’t bother me.

Just so we’re clear, yes or no: Are you okay with a sitting lawmaker using their power to coerce a corporation into doing business in a certain way⁠—in a state other than the one in whih that lawmaker resides, no less!⁠—if you agree with the ends that those means intend to justify?

My whole point is that even if you disagree with Walgreens’s decision (and I do!), Newsom using his power to coerce Walgreens into doing something that the company’s higher-ups may not want to do (no matter how boneheaded that decision makes them look) is bullshit. If Newsom wanted to ask for assurances from Walgreens about those other states, there were far more diplomatic ways of doing it. And if he wanted to let the contract lapse based on Walgreens’s decision (or lack of assurances), he could’ve let it lapse without remark. That he went public with the threat of letting the contract lapse based on whether Walgreens makes a decision on how it does business outside of California that personally pleases him is neither diplomatic nor ethical.

I believe in reproductive rights and freedoms. I think Newsom is being an ass in this situation. Neither idea precludes the other.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:9

Just so we’re clear, yes or no: Are you okay with a sitting lawmaker using their power to coerce a corporation into doing business in a certain way⁠—in a state other than the one in whih that lawmaker resides, no less!⁠—if you agree with the ends that those means intend to justify?

Yes, I am. I think it’s pretty cool.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

No, because that’s bigoted and shitty and nothing like what Newsom is doing in California. Stephen specifically said:

if you agree with the ends that those means intend to justify?

Defending reproductive rights and reproductive healthcare procedures, as well as defending the right to access the relevant meds, that’s cool.

Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:12

I was reading ‘you’ as in generic ‘you’.

If someone agrees with the ends, then doesn’t that make their actions justified?

DeSantis was re-elected by a wide margin of people who obviously like what he does and the reasons behind it.

Doesn’t that make him justified in doing whatever he wants?

He’s cool with it, his voters are cool with it.

I’m pointing out that you being cool with Newsom’s reaction doesn’t mean anything, legally. There are legal and moral arguments for and against what he did, and he’ll have to defend those by somehow making a crucial distinction between his behaviour and DeSantis’s.

BTW, I am 100% behind universal access to abortion and abortifacients, and any other health-related drug or facility or procedure. I’m not defending DeSantis. You just need more than your warm and fuzzy feelings to rebut the argument in Mike’s post.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

There are legal and moral arguments for and against what he did, and he’ll have to defend those by somehow making a crucial distinction between his behaviour and DeSantis’s.

“by somehow making a crucial distinction” makes it sound like you think that Newsom making that distinction will somehow be hard. Newsom made it explicit that unless Walgreens talks about exactly what the hell is going on regarding the abortifacient meds, they’re not gonna be getting a renewal on their contract because they aren’t gonna be seen as being able to hold up their end of the deal. He’s being upfront and clear about why he’s gonna be letting a contract lapse, while DeSantis is making extrajudicial bullshit moves to take over districts because a theme park & media company supports LGBTQ+ people.

What’s next, are y’all gonna say that Nebraska Congresswoman Cavanaugh using the filibuster right now, and having done so for 3 weeks at this poont, to both bring attention to and stop a bigoted anti-trans bill from passing the state’s unicameral legislature, is the same as when Ted Cruz was filibustering in 2013 because he and his dirtbag buddies wanted to repeal Obamacare, and we got the government shutdown and shit because of it?

If someone agrees with the ends, then doesn’t that make their actions justified?

Moral relativism is a poor position to argue from. Reproductive health care and the rights associated with it, and trans rights are morally good, always, all the time. Pro-lifer domineers who want to own people’s bodies and transphobic bigots are bad. Actions taken to oppose the bad things, the actions like what Gavin Newsom and Machaela Cavanaugh are doing, are good.

Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:14

“by somehow making a crucial distinction” makes it sound like you think that Newsom making that distinction will somehow be hard.

Given the current SCOTUS, I suspect it will be impossible.

“Moral relativism is a poor position to argue from.”

Yes. Which was exactly my point. There has to be a material difference in legal terms for this to stand up in any legal case Walmart might bring (or another company in a similar situation.)

Reproductive health care and the rights associated with it, and trans rights are morally good, always, all the time. Pro-lifer domineers who want to own people’s bodies and transphobic bigots are bad. Actions taken to oppose the bad things, the actions like what Gavin Newsom and Machaela Cavanaugh are doing, are good.

I don’t what I wrote, which included this explicit statement:

“I am 100% behind universal access to abortion and abortifacients, and any other health-related drug or facility or procedure.”

Which makes you think I disagree with you on that.

The important point is whether Newsom can defend his position under your constitution. I think he can (IANAL though), but not on the grounds that reproductive rights are good and governments suppressing bad thoughts is evil. Because, apart from anything else, your SCOTUS is bugfuck insane, so the arguments will have to be compelling enough to convince Clarence and his merry minions.

You can start by convincing Mike that you’re right. So far, he thinks you (as in those who would argue your point) are not.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

In the the states where you say “it’s legal but AGs object” you’re lying, again.

Even if he’s wrong, there’s no reason to assume he’s lying. He could just be mistaken.

It’s expressly illegal to distribute the drug through the mail, anywhere in the US.

Do you have evidence of this? Also, do pharmacies distribute these pills through the mail to begin with?

There are also sate laws against it separate from abortion […]

Are those laws present in the relevant states?

[…] and there is the issue of medical licensing.

Why would a large pharmacy not have the proper licensing to distribute the drugs it was distributing? That seems unrealistic.

Also, with regards to each of these, why were they not a problem before now?

DeSantis did punish Disney for speech, and that’s wrong on principal, but he also threatened to take away (and DID modify) a special exemption that I don’t really should exist to start with. The whole thing had me very conflicted.

Understandable. I felt similarly.

Now, admit that the federal government engineered a censorship by proxy scheme, you fucking asshat.

He will once you can prove that it did.

Kinetic Gothic says:

Re:

In the the states where you say “it’s legal but AGs object” you’re lying, again. It’s expressly illegal to distribute the drug through the mail, anywhere in the US.

One of the big problems with that take is that the both the AG’s and Walgreens statements on what they object to and what Wallgreens will and will not do are ambiguous, Kris Kobach for example said not only “mailing” but “dispensing”, which would include in-person at pharmacy locations. And Wallgreens statement said they would not be selling the drug in the states who’s AG, signed on to the letter, which would also presumably include not only mailing, but also dispensing it in person.

mvario (profile) says:

Sound argument

Sound argument if one is a free-speech absolutist. In my old age I’ve moved away from that position. I think that countries that have banned certain hate speech and the like have fared better in recent times than say the US with its FOX news and Nazi Youtube channels. So I see the moral difference between Newsom’s actions and those of DeSantis does actually differentiate them, though not legally.

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Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: Re:

“you’re just a nazi then, who doesn’t believe in free speech”

You don’t believe Mike Masnick has the right to post on whatever subject he chooses, in the way he chooses, on his own blog, which he pays to run. You are in fact doing everything in your power to try and stop him doing that, and to deter other people from freely commenting and engaging in the manner they choose.

Yet you’re trying to paint other people as Nazis for simply noting that free speech laws vary and some work better than the ones in America for the countries that have them?

Puhlease. Vapid and hypocritical is no way to go through life, son.

jamie says:

I’be worried about this too, a bit. I don’t think there’s a good decision to be made here, only trades for one less-bad thing for others.

Ultimately, Newsom is providing a signal that, if this horse shit keeps up, there will be push back. If the wefare states and their enablers want to play stupid games, they will win stupid prizes. The damage will not flow one way.

This behavior is heading towards “I may lose, but you will not win” negative sum territory, fast. No, it isn’t a good thing. But if the alternative is being dominated by “cousin-fucker terrorists”, as Tucker Carlson’s ex-producer calls them, well, personally, I’m an American. Live free or die.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

They refuse to carry a legal drug. Their job is to dispense drugs. This means they are incompetent at performing this function. Why would anyone do any business with them?

They refuse to carry a legal book. Their job is to dispense books. This means they are incompetent at performing this function. Why would anyone do any business with them if they don’t sell Mein Kampf.

Just because it’s legal to carry/sell something, the owner of said business has a 1st amendment right to decide whether or not to sell specific items.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re: Walgreens could also stop doing business in those states

I know that Walgreens would never do this either as it would cost them billions in revenue. Should my state be forced to continue to do business with a company whose business practices the majority of the folks in the state don’t agree with? I’m a strong 1st amendment supporter, but profit motives are not automatically moral. Just because a company like Walgreens IS a parasite on our society, doesn’t mean we need to bend over backwards to support their “business choices”. Like many things, there’s a lot more nuance on here and I’m afraid its not so black and white.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Should my state be forced to continue to do business with a company whose business practices the majority of the folks in the state don’t agree with?

By the same token: Should the company be forced to change how it does business in other states to keep a contract with your state?

Because that’s what this whole situation comes down to. Newsom is threatening to let a contract with the state of California expire because he disagrees with Walgreens deciding to follow the law (or at least not open itself up to a lawsuit) in other states. He wants Walgreens to defy those state laws⁠—or at least the state AGs threatening to sue Walgreens⁠—and is using the threat of letting that contract expire as a means of making that happen.

Maybe what he’s doing is legal. That’s for the lawyers to work out. But it sure as hell isn’t ethical.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:5

You said:

And if Newsom wanted to have those assurances, he could’ve chosen a much more… diplomatic method of asking for them.

So yeah, it does seem like your problem is that he didn’t ask nicely toward the company that seems set to make the lives of lots of people worse by denying them abortion meds, even where they’re legal.

One of the things that Newsom said is this:

“California will not stand by as corporations cave to extremists and cut off critical access to reproductive care and freedom,” Newsom said in a news release. “California is on track to be the fourth largest economy in the world and we will leverage our market power to defend the right to choose.”

I’m sorry Newsom didn’t smile more to Walgreens as they pissed him and other pro-choice people off.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:6

it does seem like your problem is that he didn’t ask nicely toward the company that seems set to make the lives of lots of people worse by denying them abortion meds, even where they’re legal

If Walgreens’s decision doesn’t affect California, what business is it of Newsom’s if Walgreens makes that decision in a way he doesn’t like? What business is it of his to defend reproductive rights outside of his state?

Said it before, saying it again: I’m not a fan of Walgreens’s decision. But Newsom openly trying to coerce Walgreens into reversing that decision with a mob-like “it’d be a shame if something happened…” threat to let the company’s contract with the state of California lapse is, at the bare minimum, unethical as fuck.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

If Walgreens’s decision doesn’t affect California, what business is it of Newsom’s if Walgreens makes that decision in a way he doesn’t like? What business is it of his to defend reproductive rights outside of his state?

Idunno, maybe it’s his business because the erosion of reproductive rights in other states affects more than just those states themselves? Have you ever heard of the concept of empathy for those not in your immediate vicinity, and using the tools you have to help the people you can?

“It’s not his state, so it’s none of his business; he should stay in his lane” is a libertarian, isolationist, do-nothing head-ass take if I’ve ever seen one. If him using the forceful language he’s using results in people in red states continuing to get abortion meds, then go for it.

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PossibleHuman (profile) says:

Subtle but important distinctions

First, both Florida and California have created special circumstances which benefit Disney and Walgreens respectively.

Florida created a special district commission which allows Disney significant control over the use of public resources in a way that no one else can, barring the state government. California had awarded a contract for provision of services to Walgreens.

If those special circumstances are removed, for whatever reason, there is no other factor preventing the companies affected from doing business in the respective states on the same level of playing field as any of their competitors. I would argue that this means the actions of the governors, regardless of rationale, is not actually a punishment so much as the withdrawal of special consideration (or reward); something that governments should be free to do when and however they will and for whatever reason.

These actions should be weighed against theoretical legal actions which make it harder for the targeted companies to do business than it is for any of their competitors. This would definitively qualify as punishment, and is exactly what I agree should NOT be allowed as a political action of state governments, particularly as punishment for “speech” that political leaders find objectionable.

Second, let’s skip the whole ridiculous concept of corporate personhood because it is an abominable fiction which has been given such depth of legitimacy for so long that I cannot see any way for the country to claw right and proper controls on corporate entities back, but we can look at “speech” and see that generally, the policies and practices under discussion here are merely choices made to serve the bottom line. Disney wants to foster the kind of open and welcoming environment for customers and staff that is consistent with the branding they have spent untold billions to create and maintain, and wingnut cult leaders elected by kleptocratic oligarchs and their media bootlickers are not going to cost Disney enough to make them change. In the dcase of Walgreens, they simply wanted to walk the line between avoiding a fight with wingnut cult leader AGs and pissing off a large portion of their customer base, and they could not competently or coherently manage the conflict between these desires, and their inability to make a clear statement that they would continue to provide the services for which California had contracted them was not so much speech as the failure to speak when called upon to do so, and their failure is what cost them the contract.

Anathema Device (profile) says:

If Walgreens had announced it would not serve trans people in its stores in certain states, which would probably violate the law in California, is the governor obliged to continue giving contracts to it?

If another company said it would sell EVs but not in California? Or if another company said it would sell its most polluting vehicles in California, but nowhere else?

Where is the line that a company must cross that violates Californian laws or values, before the state government can say, this is antithetical to our state’s vision and we don’t want to have contracts with you?

In Florida’s case, De Santis directly assaulted Disney’s actual operations and took over parts it had previously controlled. He and his cronies have been boasting about how they will thus force Disney to only produce the content that they themselves prefer (they won’t be able to, of course.)

It seems to me that Walgreens was being punished for saying it would offer a less optimal service to Californian citizens than other competitors might, and like a good capitalist, Newsome was taking his business elsewhere. Newsome serves all Californians and has to represent all their interests.

De Santis is trying to force Disney to stop Disney serving all its customers and instead behave like Walgreens was threatening to, reducing consumer choice.

Governors regularly favour this or that company because it will supposedly help the citizens they serve (often in reality only the Governor and its party). I think California can easily claim Walgreen’s free speech does not overcome the governor’s duty to make sure public contracts go to companies which offer the best service to its people.

betamagic says:

Another example

The governors are not the same.

Say you are a governor have a contract with Ford to buy fleets of ambulances and cop cars.

Then Ford states they would will no longer sell cop cars.

Or they will, but not everywhere, maybe…

Wanting to cancel the contract is not punishing Ford for speech.

Ford is not entitled to the state’s business if cannot be relied upon to uphold the agreement.

Walgreens has an agreement with California. It is unclear if this pharmacy can be relied upon to distribute medication.

Disney did not have a contract to promote the views of the governor of California.

Alex Tolley says:

Is Newsome wrong to end a supply contract with Walgreens?

“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” – John Stuart Mill.

While the OP and comments are mostly about the law, I think a wider moral point is just as important. Newsome is taking a stand, small as it is. There is little doubt that Walgreens is being vague in its response to the legal distribution of mifepristone in states where the AG has expressed that they will act against companies facilitating this.

I’m sorry to have invoked Godwin’s Law, but this sort of pressure by the Nazis corrupted interwar Germany. The US is following the same MO in twisting the law and rulings that the Nazi party did to conformance to their ideology, and ultimately to Hitler’s will. Since companies will not stand up and resist, others must. Newsome has more clout than most of us. It may or may not be advisable, and I don’t doubt Newsome sees this as a political advancement move, but so far I see little resistance to the ant-abortionists in the USA trying to make any abortion from egg fertilization onwards illegal and a capital crime. I would hope it inspires more organizations to resist what to my mind is an evil spreading in the USA, one pursued by a minority and using the courts to enforce their ideology.

dkroll5555 (profile) says:

Boycott vs. Seizure

I think you have a point, Mike, but I think one difference between CA and FL is the that CA is “choosing not to buy something” while FL “took something valuable away.”

As I understand it, CA is choosing to wind down their commercial relationship with Walgreens because of their stance. Assuming the governor is exercising his authority properly in making the decision, I think that’s fine. Walgreens made a choice, CA responded by taking their business elsewhere, and voters can consider this at the ballot box.

FL, on the other hand, took something of value from Disney in response to their position. Even if Reedy Creek’s restructuring ultimately has no effect on the development and financing that Disney would have done, the fact that Governor now makes the district’s Board appointments distinguishes the two situations. It’s something valuable that was taken away.

If Newsom said that CA was going to fine Walgreens, refuse to pay outstanding bills, or confiscate stores, the two situations would be analogous. If DeSantis determined that the state government would no longer host conventions at Disney, that would be a similar case.

Newsom is choosing not to do further business with Walgreens. DeSantis took away something from Disney.

Additionally, DeSantis’ actions don’t appear to be based on principle. He and the FL lege didn’t eliminate all the improvement districts, only the ones that they were mad at. I assume that Newsom will make a similar boycott of any other pharmacy that adopts Walgreens’ position; evidence of a clear difference.

Anonymous Coward says:

It all boils down to a huge difference. Disney shielded its customers from the government’s back and forth and attempts to put the business in the governments crosshairs with the hope of having Disney change and walk away from their customers having access to LGBT characters.
While Walgreen’s has attempted to ignore the law and prevent access to prescribed drugs even where lawful. While at the same time attempting to monopolize the prescription industry.

Anonymous Coward says:

I have to disagree I think. If the opposite were true in each case, if, for example, Desantis and the state of florida had contracts with Disney to sell stuff in the state and let’s say Disney sold guns. If Disney decided, that do to school shootings, they would no longer sell guns, I would say Desantis has every right to cancel the contracts. They are no longer selling something that there were when the contracts were agreed to and something that Florida wants out of the stores there. Or if the reverse were to have happened, if Walgreens had spoken out against an abortion bill that Newsom passed and nothing else and Newsom had tried to take away their special tax status but not the other 2000 similar special taxes that other businesses have in the state, then appointed a board to oversee Walgreen, and said that it was a victory of bigots and it was going to use its leverage to stop conservative ideology, I would definitely have a problem with that.

Plus, the attorney generals letter is kinda similar to Warrens, isn’t it? Vaguely threatening Walgreens to not sell the pills? That’s what started the whole thing.

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