In A Monday Night Declaration, The White House Admits Musk And DOGE Violated The CFAA (Although They Might Not Realize It)
from the schrodinger's-categorical-error dept
Suing Elon Musk and DOGE has finally led to at least one thing: the White House now finally defining Musk’s role in government. On Monday night, in the New Mexico v. Musk, it claimed him as a “an employee of the White House Office” with only “the ability to advise the President, or communicate the President’s directives.”
This filing, with is accompanying declaration, was made to tell the court that Musk “’has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself’—including personnel decisions at individual agencies.” (Nor does DOGE have such authority.) It came up because in Monday’s hearing about the TRO New Mexico and over a dozen more states had sought to, among other things, restrain Musk and DOGE from causing the firing of any more personnel. The DOJ is now trying to claim that neither Musk nor DOGE were ever responsible for any personnel firing decisions.
But it’s a strategy that seems too cute by half and one that potentially creates more issues for Musk and DOGE than it purports to solve. Because the filing serves as a big neon sign saying that Musk had little authority.
So then what the hell was he doing demanding that anyone from DOGE get access to the nation’s most sensitive computer systems?
It certainly looks like it was access “without authorization” that the CFAA punishes because there was no authorization that this particular status as a White House employee could endow him with to entitle him, or his delegates, to the access they took. Nor, apparently, did it. From the declaration:
“Mr. Musk is an employee of the White House Office. He holds that position as a non-career Special Government Employee (“SGE”). In that job, Mr. Musk is a Senior Advisor to the President. […] In his role as a Senior Advisor to the President, Mr. Musk has no greater authority than other senior White House advisors. Like other senior White House advisors, Mr. Musk has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself. Mr. Musk can only advise the President and communicate the President’s directives.”
Perhaps the DOJ is hoping that “communicate the President’s directives” gave Musk the power to demand the access, as if his authorization somehow flowed from the President. But the President didn’t have the authority to demand the agency access Musk and DOGE took because, as other litigation is pointing out, such access was limited by statute.
The DOJ is also trying to dance around the Constitution by claiming that DOGE is mere “component of the Executive Office of the President.” But Musk and DOGE have been doing more than just advising the White House. Although disclaimed now, the firings, contract breaches, and payment freezes seem to have been at their hands. But even if they were only the byproduct of “recommendations” Musk and DOGE had made they were recommendations made in the shadow of their unauthorized access to these sensitive computer systems and all their data—access which they have also used to directly interfere with agency operations, at times even by having direct access to their code.
There is nothing advisory about any of those activities. The very real problem the country is facing is that Musk and DOGE are asserting a coercive power to seize access to these systems, which has then fueled their destruction. And what this case is asserting is that constitutionally they should have had no such power to do any of it.
Filed Under: authority, cfaa, doge, doj, elon musk, special government employee
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Comments on “In A Monday Night Declaration, The White House Admits Musk And DOGE Violated The CFAA (Although They Might Not Realize It)”
State of New Mexico: We are suing Musk for its DOGE nonsense.
White House: Sorry, we don’t know any Musk in the DOGE Service. We may have a Musk in our service but it has nothing to do with DOGE since he’s a White House Office employee. So, case closed?
Re:
So, Schrodinger’s DOGE?
Even if Musk/DOGE are in violation of the CFAA and who knows how many other federal laws, who is going to prosecute that? Nobody in the current administration. Congress isn’t going to do anything. The voters cannot make any substantial changes for another 2 years.
Re:
I’m wondering the same thing. I’m also wondering if violating the CFAA can be used in civil cases against Musk and DOGE.
Re: Re:
I haven’t seen any lawyers confirm this (maybe they have, I just haven’t seen it), but according to the wiki:
Which means, to my lay-person understanding, that there could well be a class action suit by damn near every person in the US whose information was accessed by Musk and his cronies, and that as a civil action, it would be completely unpardonable.
It’s not completely out of the realm of possibility that he could be sued for literal billions of dollars over this. The success of that lawsuit is beyond my knowledge, but such a large carrot would make a lot of lawyers line up to sign on and not give up easily. Hopefully he’ll be in court for the rest of his life.
Re:
yup, the ABA recently attempted to count the current total number of Federal laws, but gave up when reaching the 400,000 mark
Re: Re:
Umm what do you mean? The ABA’s legal answers service answered 400K total questions since 2016 as of January 2025.
That has nothing to do with the “Number of federal laws”, and nothing to do with the comment you replied to.
Re:
CFAA provides a private right of civil action that some lawyers have argued the current administration has triggered. Such a claim would be made by the hands of private citizens and not administration lawyers.
Unfortunately data is not like a car. When you steal data, the original car still exists.
So many things terrify me,
Among them is the amount of data the United States government collects and stores with so.. so many granular data points. The only safeguards on the hideous abuse of this enormous trove of information are the checks and balances of the branches of government.
The heist is done, they already accessed (and stole) the data. Now it’s in private hands (imo supervillan hands) and in the wild.
There’s a seriously likely chance this data is already being used to compile lists of undesirables to round up and purge. As well as potential recruits for a “National American Zeitgeist Investigation” organization composed of “concerned and armed citizens”.
It sure makes me empathize with Cassandra.
Re:
Who is Cassandra?
Re: Re:
I’m guessing he’s referring to Greek mythology.
Re: Re:
Cassandra was the seer who knew the Trojan Horse was a ploy but no one believed her. She was cursed to know the future but for no one to believe her.
Re:
The only way to contain this leakage is to imprison Elmo and his minions for life, in solitary confinement so they can’t communicate in any way with the outside world.
Either that, or I’m gonna go out on a limb and paraphrase an old meme, as in “The only good Musk is a dead Musk”. Not that I condone violence of this nature, but if Elmo doesn’t pay up for violating the CFAA so egregiously, then Aaron Schwartz should be brought back to life and be compensated for his duress.
The data
Musk’s aI most definitely already has all of this data. His team inserted private servers to hoover up everything into his aI system. It is only a matter of time before Musk uses this information to target anyone he desires. So, how many years of “credit monitoring” will this get us?
Re:
It’s worse than that: much worse.
Given the profound incompetence displayed by Musk’s thugs (and I’m sure there’s plenty more that we don’t know about yet) their chances of storing this data securely are pretty much zero.
AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.
Which means that every government, every criminal organization, every data broker, every freelancer, everyone who thinks they can get their hands on it is going to try. And they’ll probably succeed.
Which in turn means that every American’s private financial and medical data is already or will be soon in the hands of enemies of every description: phishers, scammers, blackmailers, terrorists, human traffickers, etc.
Re: Re:
You forgot stalkers with malevolent intent.
Re: Re: Re:
Don’t forget harassment when the DOGE-in-chief tells the entire world incorrectly about how awful you are.
Re:
What an “al”? Did your fat fingers slip down from the “i” to the “l”? If so, I understand and commiserate, it takes me a long time to get all the key-punches in the correct order.
None, as he will own and operate the only credit reporting bureau, all of the others will be gone. Effectively, you’re already being monitored, just not in a way that you like.
Elon, master of social engineering
Musk has used social engineering masterfully, simply talked people into giving him access to our most sensitive data. Right in front of the entire worlds eyes.
CFAA is worth a try.
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You Are The Swamp
The President of the United States has the authority to look into any system of the executive branch. He can therefore delegate employees to look into those computer systems, and report back on the waste, fraud, and useless government bureaucrats.
In the past, BestNetTech has bemoaned regulatory capture. But now, BestNetTech supports it, under the theory that once hired, only the bureaucrats themselves can examine their own work, thereby rendering themselves unaccountable. And unless the President himself has the technical expertise and the time to march down to a particular department and examine the digital paperwork, noone is permitted to do it for him. Bureaucrat capture of government over elected officials is apparently okay!
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Re:
How is your ass hole? I’m assuming in prison you get fucked quite a bit.
Re:
Except, Koward, as the government has just admitted, Musk and DOGE didn’t have the proper authority.
How are you so bad at reading?
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Re: Re:
You’re confusing the authority to fire employees with the authority to audit the computer systems of the executive branch. The lawsuit only concerns layoffs, which were approved by the President, not DOGE. Meanwhile, DOGE was given authorized access to computers (as the USDS has done for years) by the President.
Re: Re: Re:
DOGE was given authorized access to computers (as the USDS has done for years) by the President.
Sounds very simple to me.
So why the fuck hasn’t he done anything about the cost of groceries?
Re: Re: Re:
The Trump admin themselves said Musk was an adviser and didn’t have more authority than other presidential advisors.
Accessing sensitive financial data about the government and the American populace would violate that authority.
When has the USDS ever accessed the Treasury computer systems, you colossal gaslighter?
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Re: Re: Re:2
I’m confident that since USDS has already been working with the Department of Health, Department of Education, Department of Defense, GSA, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security, that they already had the authority for years.
We know that this is just some sour grapes that the government bureaucracy scam is getting exposed.
Re: Re: Re:3
Certainly not. Rarely do consulting branches get, or even want, access to a other departments data. To do it properly, it’s an immense pain in th as because you need to figure out how you’re harmonizing two different data policies, procedures, etc. I realize that doing things right isn’t a concern for Musk.
Re: Re: Re:3
I too shall take them at their word! Why, blind trust is only sensible, clearly, given their long history of being reliable, truthful, and moral!
Re: Re: Re:3
I’m confident that your confidence is bullshit and not a substitute for proof. You’re admitting here that you don’t actually know that these actions are in fact legal (don’t worry, we already knew that you were full of shit). You’ve been swearing up and down that this is all perfectly legal and insulting people who think otherwise yet you know for a fact you don’t actually know if that’s true.
Yes, and it was the Jews who sabotaged Germany in WWI and it was the Polish who attacked the Germans first before the invasion of Poland and antifa was behind January 6th. Your ability to dislocate your jaw to swallow whole the propaganda you’ve being fed is both impressive and sad.
Re:
Did you think regulatory capture was a term for bureaucrats doing their jobs and not actually when those who are regulated unduly influence their regulators? Musk is the regulated. You’re cheering regulatory capture of the purest form such that Musk can influence every regulatory agency. And you have the gall to project and say everyone else is in favor of regulatory capture. This blind sycophantry is getting more and more absurd.
Re:
Not if Congress doesn’t allow him to, which they haven’t.
This has nothing to do with regulatory capture. If anything, giving Elon this much power is an example of regulatory capture, not a defense against it.
No, because certain members of Congress have oversight, and it’s not just their work but private citizens’ data being viewed here.
Elections
You think we’ll have free, fair, secret ballot elections in two years? Or do you think we’ll have Russian style elections?
I give it a 50/50 chance.
Re:
Please understand that individual states run elections. That makes elections a lot harder to undermine on a nationwide scale.
Re: Re:
“You want disaster relief money now that I broke FEMA? Do me a favor and pass this new election law in your state- or else”
Re: Re:
Doesn’t have to be a national scale.
Vigilantes, Inc.
I haven’t watched, but it’s all about the ‘legal ways’ certain swing states were stolen through preventing legal registered residents from voting through ‘challenges’, which only require you ‘live in the same district’ (I believe it was).
For example, some individuals challenged 10s of thousands of voters in their district, and suddenly those people no longer could vote (more complicated than that, but not really)…
You don’t have to compromise the whole nation, only those few ‘key’ counties that matter…
Unfortunately, it is not a crime where the government will not even investigate, let alone prosecute.
Re:
CFAA includes a private right of action. People can sue without the government having to prosecute.
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They "don't realize it"
Cuz this is a crackpot theory that literally only exists in your own delusional head.
Yeah man, decisions are made by the president, Musk is just advising. Still COMPLETELY authorized to access to those computer systems Trump said he could.
This is just confused babbling at this point.
Re:
While I readily admit that “although they don’t realize it” is rather optimistic and the more likely completion is “but they don’t care shit about that”, your “COMPLETELY authorized to access to those computer systems Trump said he could” is utter bollocks as well.
Because it confuses the role of “U.S. president” with omnipotence. Trump was not in a position to authorize such access, and such authorization cannot happen anyway without going through the proper paperwork and channels.
The letter should be glaringly obvious even to idiots because otherwise there would be absolutely no guard against social engineering: just claiming “I am authorized to do this” cannot replace actual verifiable authorization.
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Re: Re:
I am sorry you are ignorant as to how the constitution and the executive branch works.
Yes, Trump, can authorize access to any Executive branch system. “Proper paperwork and channels” is literally whatever he decides it is.
You Are Just Wrong.
Re: Re: Re:
Why do you think Trump is a king?
Re: Re: Re:
To paraphrase:
Then why do you think it is that Elmo took one of two courses of action every time he fired one or more government workers?
a) He did the dirty at night, and by morning the freshly fired employees were locked out (Never mind that they were notified only by email, early that very morning.);
b) Used armed thugs to “escort” employees off of the property?
I contend that if you’re in the right, and doing things completely legally, then you don’t need armed thugs to do your dirty work.
Re:
Bullshit… Just because the so-called president said so, doesn’t mean it’s legal.
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Re: Re:
1) Trump IS your president.
2) literally, within the Executive Branch it’s legal because he says so.
This is the part you people are just refusing to get, but it is literally true. I get that you DON’T LIKE IT, it’s still literally true and will always be true.
Re: Re: Re:
Is this “Nuh uh” Matty?
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Re: Re: Re:
Trump IS your president.
NO he isn’t. The 2024 election was stolen.
Re: Re: Re:
Winning the election and becoming president is like getting a driving licence. It allows you to drive according to the rules of the road.
It doesn’t make anything you do in a car legal.
Just because Trump is in the oval office doesn’t mean he gets to ignore the law.
Re: Re: Re:
Going to guess you felt differently when Biden cancelled student loans.
Re: Re: Re:2
Just like you are OK with Biden ignoring the court ruling regarding the loans
Re: Re: Re:
No, he isn’t. I’m not an American citizen. What, you didn’t know the Internet is available outside the US? Just like all the doomers that claim repeal of Section 230 will destroy it, then.
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Maxine Waters said it best
“they have access to the computers. We don’t know what all they have on us.”
LOL
Why are you so afraid of saving money?
Re:
It’s not the fear of saving money, it’s the fear of where sensitive personal information will end up and how it’s going to be used.
You don’t save money by doing what Musk and his cohort of “hackers” are doing, you use people who actually know their shit when it comes to financial systems.
There’s also no reason to copy anything, you analyze the data in-place – because the moment someone copies it without using compliant methods and hardware you have lost the chain of custody. Considering how they so far have proceeded doing things the risk of sensitive information being leaked is very high.
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Re: Re:
It it absolutely that. Some of it is actual fraud and corruption, most of it is probably pet projects they don’t want exposed, but that is absolutely what they are afraid of, that stuff being exposed.
They’re not hackers, they were given admin access. And obviously you’re lying, since they’ve already saved several billion dollars.
Re: Re: Re:
Don’t pretend to know the mental state of other people.
They made other people give them admin access without proper authorization. That’s hacking.
Obviously you’re lying because there’s no way to gauge that yet.
Re: Re: Re:
And obviously you’re lying, since they’ve already saved several billion dollars.
So when can we expect the cost of groceries to come down?
Seems like this cost-savings stuff is so easy, and their team is so efficient…can they not get to that part of the system?
Re: Re: Re:
Pix, or it didn’t happen.
And if you think that firing several hundred gov’t employees is saving a billion bucks, then I’d like to have one of those jobs, please.
Remember, this isn’t about ‘pet projects’ or foreign cash outlays, it’s about decimating our own government, starting with the administration branch. Oh, you think that it will end there, that the judiciary and Congress itself are immune from these kinds of actions? Let me recommend a good shrink, because you already need one, and in a few more weeks you’re going to admit it.
Re: Re: Re:
Since you say there is actual fraud and corruption, you should have no problems at all presenting factual information that supports your statement.
My guess is that you are busily huffing the gas Musk pass regularly.
Re: Re: Re:
Genuine question: Are you stupid enough to believe this despite no evidence being presented, or do you actually think we’re stupid enough to believe you?
Re: Re:
FTFY
Re: Spoken like a true grifter
If I hear that question from some grubby patron in front of a bank that offers to make a transfer for half the fee the bank takes if I just give him my money, I have some reason to be skeptical.
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Re: Re:
You’re LITERALLY afraid of transparency
Re: Re: Re: Hypocricy much?
Said the anonymous coward.
Re: Re: Re:
What transparency? Trump declared DOGE exempt from FOIA.
Re:
Why aren’t you more afraid of their having access to some of your most sensitive information?
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Re: Re:
because literally 10’s of thousands of “unelected bureaucrats” have access to that same stuff? I trust Musk a lot more than the guy who released Trump’s tax returns (blatantly illegal, btw).
Re: Re: Re:
No? Only very specific people at the Treasury department have access to it. You’re making shit up to justify the fuckery of Musk and his 4chan squad.
Re: Re: Re:
Hey Matty, I fully expect that when Elon and the DOGE crew start releasing people’s tax returns, you’re going to claim it’s totally fine.
Re:
Why are you so afraid of saving money?
Because the money being saved is doing fuck-all about the cost of groceries.
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Re: Re:
It’s been under a month, you utter ret@ard.
Quite sure you were defending Biden’s “temporary” inflation so don’t lie and pretend that’s what you care about.
Re: Re: Re:
Trump said “Day one”. Are you saying he was lying?
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It’s been under a month, you utter ret@ard.
It’s also way past ‘Day 1’ fuckface. If you can’t meet a deadline, don’t commit to it.
Quite sure you were defending Biden’s “temporary” inflation so don’t lie and pretend that’s what you care about.
I care about the cost of groceries. When the fuck is President Musk going to fix it? Give me a timeline, fucko.
Re:
Because the cost of defending hundreds of lawsuits for illegal firings is going to be much, much greater than it would’ve been to simply keep the fired employees on the payroll in the first place.
Simple arithmetic; no morals, no ethics, no illegalities, no nation-up-in-arms, no budding financial crises, everybody goes about their business of bitching about the price of eggs and that’s it.
Ordinarily, I like to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but in your case I’m going to make an exception….
If Musk is a white house office employee, why have he and his family been living in various government offices that aren’t the white house? Who gave him clearance to even ENTER those offices?
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Re:
You realize Trump can LITERALLY just give that clearance, right?
That’s why this article is trash, in fact.
Re: Re:
So he’s given that clearance, then? You’ve seen the document saying that everyone in DOGE has clearance?
Re: Re: Re:
You’ve seen the document saying that everyone in DOGE has clearance?
No, he hasn’t.
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Yo!
Elections have consequences remember?
Re:
And just as obviously the oath of office doesn’t
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Re: Re: Yo, but it does!
Your gal lost, and now the woke left are the new Tea Party, let that “sink” in!
Re: Re: Re:
Haven’t you heard, the right are now going “woke”. They’re taking the red pill.
Re:
Elections have consequences remember?
I sure do. I’m waiting for one of those consequences that you, Koby, or whatever other simple-minded dipshit can’t seem to answer.
How about the price of groceries? Where’s that fucking consequence? And why is renaming the Gulf of Mexico a higher priority?
Buckle up, asshole – this question is going to follow you around just like infrastructure week for 4 years.
Re: Re:
Gas popped 20 cents up here over the weekend.
This is going to be a very expensive administration.
Re: Re: Re:
Likewise here.
Seems like he hasn’t started his ‘drill, baby drill’ concept of a plan, either. We’ll see results in 2 weeks…I’m certain of it. (/s)
Re: Elections have consequences
and those consequences are spelled out in the Constitution. That makes them different from “Coups have consequences” or “Lost wars have consequences”.
Some people seem to have problems understanding the difference.
'We're not the WH so bugger right off with that'
Well that’s handy. In an attempt to shield Elon/DODGE from any consequences for their actions the DOJ just argued in court that they have no authority over other agencies, all they can do is ‘advise the president'(strange that Elon’s meant to advise himself, but okay).
Hopefully every other government agency is paying attention and are prepping their ‘your own DOJ argued you can’t demand anything from us, so fuck off’ letters of refusal for whenever Elon or his goons come sniffing around.
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Delusional
You people are delusional. Literally mind boggling.
Re:
That’s nice, dear, please shush now, the adults are talking.
As a non-direct government official, Musk has zero legal immunity for actions performed, since they aren’t ‘part of his official duties’. (the reason trump avoided most charges during his presidency).
So he can be sued in civil court, though he’s rich enough to make most cases ‘go away’ via huge settlement agreements….
DOGE and Musk
Any way you slice it, it’s a shit show… The country is being run by imbeciles