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In A Monday Night Declaration, The White House Admits Musk And DOGE Violated The CFAA (Although They Might Not Realize It)

from the schrodinger's-categorical-error dept

Suing Elon Musk and DOGE has finally led to at least one thing: the White House now finally defining Musk’s role in government. On Monday night, in the New Mexico v. Musk, it claimed him as a “an employee of the White House Office” with only “the ability to advise the President, or communicate the President’s directives.”

This filing, with is accompanying declaration, was made to tell the court that Musk “’has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself’—including personnel decisions at individual agencies.” (Nor does DOGE have such authority.) It came up because in Monday’s hearing about the TRO New Mexico and over a dozen more states had sought to, among other things, restrain Musk and DOGE from causing the firing of any more personnel. The DOJ is now trying to claim that neither Musk nor DOGE were ever responsible for any personnel firing decisions.

But it’s a strategy that seems too cute by half and one that potentially creates more issues for Musk and DOGE than it purports to solve. Because the filing serves as a big neon sign saying that Musk had little authority.

So then what the hell was he doing demanding that anyone from DOGE get access to the nation’s most sensitive computer systems?

It certainly looks like it was access “without authorization” that the CFAA punishes because there was no authorization that this particular status as a White House employee could endow him with to entitle him, or his delegates, to the access they took. Nor, apparently, did it. From the declaration:

“Mr. Musk is an employee of the White House Office. He holds that position as a non-career Special Government Employee (“SGE”). In that job, Mr. Musk is a Senior Advisor to the President. […] In his role as a Senior Advisor to the President, Mr. Musk has no greater authority than other senior White House advisors. Like other senior White House advisors, Mr. Musk has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself. Mr. Musk can only advise the President and communicate the President’s directives.”

Perhaps the DOJ is hoping that “communicate the President’s directives” gave Musk the power to demand the access, as if his authorization somehow flowed from the President. But the President didn’t have the authority to demand the agency access Musk and DOGE took because, as other litigation is pointing out, such access was limited by statute.

The DOJ is also trying to dance around the Constitution by claiming that DOGE is mere “component of the Executive Office of the President.” But Musk and DOGE have been doing more than just advising the White House. Although disclaimed now, the firings, contract breaches, and payment freezes seem to have been at their hands. But even if they were only the byproduct of “recommendations” Musk and DOGE had made they were recommendations made in the shadow of their unauthorized access to these sensitive computer systems and all their data—access which they have also used to directly interfere with agency operations, at times even by having direct access to their code.

There is nothing advisory about any of those activities. The very real problem the country is facing is that Musk and DOGE are asserting a coercive power to seize access to these systems, which has then fueled their destruction. And what this case is asserting is that constitutionally they should have had no such power to do any of it.

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Comments on “In A Monday Night Declaration, The White House Admits Musk And DOGE Violated The CFAA (Although They Might Not Realize It)”

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89 Comments
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

I haven’t seen any lawyers confirm this (maybe they have, I just haven’t seen it), but according to the wiki:

The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is both a criminal law and a statute that creates a private right of action, allowing compensation and injunctive or other equitable relief to anyone harmed by a violation of this law.

Which means, to my lay-person understanding, that there could well be a class action suit by damn near every person in the US whose information was accessed by Musk and his cronies, and that as a civil action, it would be completely unpardonable.

It’s not completely out of the realm of possibility that he could be sued for literal billions of dollars over this. The success of that lawsuit is beyond my knowledge, but such a large carrot would make a lot of lawyers line up to sign on and not give up easily. Hopefully he’ll be in court for the rest of his life.

Anonymous Coward says:

Unfortunately data is not like a car. When you steal data, the original car still exists.

So many things terrify me,

Among them is the amount of data the United States government collects and stores with so.. so many granular data points. The only safeguards on the hideous abuse of this enormous trove of information are the checks and balances of the branches of government.

The heist is done, they already accessed (and stole) the data. Now it’s in private hands (imo supervillan hands) and in the wild.

There’s a seriously likely chance this data is already being used to compile lists of undesirables to round up and purge. As well as potential recruits for a “National American Zeitgeist Investigation” organization composed of “concerned and armed citizens”.

It sure makes me empathize with Cassandra.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

The only way to contain this leakage is to imprison Elmo and his minions for life, in solitary confinement so they can’t communicate in any way with the outside world.

Either that, or I’m gonna go out on a limb and paraphrase an old meme, as in “The only good Musk is a dead Musk”. Not that I condone violence of this nature, but if Elmo doesn’t pay up for violating the CFAA so egregiously, then Aaron Schwartz should be brought back to life and be compensated for his duress.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

It’s worse than that: much worse.

Given the profound incompetence displayed by Musk’s thugs (and I’m sure there’s plenty more that we don’t know about yet) their chances of storing this data securely are pretty much zero.

AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT.

Which means that every government, every criminal organization, every data broker, every freelancer, everyone who thinks they can get their hands on it is going to try. And they’ll probably succeed.

Which in turn means that every American’s private financial and medical data is already or will be soon in the hands of enemies of every description: phishers, scammers, blackmailers, terrorists, human traffickers, etc.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Musk’s al most definitely already has all of this data.

What an “al”? Did your fat fingers slip down from the “i” to the “l”? If so, I understand and commiserate, it takes me a long time to get all the key-punches in the correct order.

So, how many years of “credit monitoring” will this get us?

None, as he will own and operate the only credit reporting bureau, all of the others will be gone. Effectively, you’re already being monitored, just not in a way that you like.

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Koby (profile) says:

You Are The Swamp

So then what the hell was he doing demanding that anyone from DOGE get access to the nation’s most sensitive computer systems?

The President of the United States has the authority to look into any system of the executive branch. He can therefore delegate employees to look into those computer systems, and report back on the waste, fraud, and useless government bureaucrats.

In the past, BestNetTech has bemoaned regulatory capture. But now, BestNetTech supports it, under the theory that once hired, only the bureaucrats themselves can examine their own work, thereby rendering themselves unaccountable. And unless the President himself has the technical expertise and the time to march down to a particular department and examine the digital paperwork, noone is permitted to do it for him. Bureaucrat capture of government over elected officials is apparently okay!

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re:

The President of the United States has the authority to look into any system of the executive branch. He can therefore delegate employees to look into those computer systems, and report back on the waste, fraud, and useless government bureaucrats.

Except, Koward, as the government has just admitted, Musk and DOGE didn’t have the proper authority.

How are you so bad at reading?

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Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

You’re confusing the authority to fire employees with the authority to audit the computer systems of the executive branch.

The Trump admin themselves said Musk was an adviser and didn’t have more authority than other presidential advisors.

Accessing sensitive financial data about the government and the American populace would violate that authority.

Meanwhile, DOGE was given authorized access to computers (as the USDS has done for years) by the President.

When has the USDS ever accessed the Treasury computer systems, you colossal gaslighter?

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Koby (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Accessing sensitive financial data about the government and the American populace would violate that authority.

I’m confident that since USDS has already been working with the Department of Health, Department of Education, Department of Defense, GSA, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security, that they already had the authority for years.

We know that this is just some sour grapes that the government bureaucracy scam is getting exposed.

MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I’m confident that

I’m confident that your confidence is bullshit and not a substitute for proof. You’re admitting here that you don’t actually know that these actions are in fact legal (don’t worry, we already knew that you were full of shit). You’ve been swearing up and down that this is all perfectly legal and insulting people who think otherwise yet you know for a fact you don’t actually know if that’s true.

We know that this is just some sour grapes that the government bureaucracy scam is getting exposed.

Yes, and it was the Jews who sabotaged Germany in WWI and it was the Polish who attacked the Germans first before the invasion of Poland and antifa was behind January 6th. Your ability to dislocate your jaw to swallow whole the propaganda you’ve being fed is both impressive and sad.

MrWilson (profile) says:

Re:

Did you think regulatory capture was a term for bureaucrats doing their jobs and not actually when those who are regulated unduly influence their regulators? Musk is the regulated. You’re cheering regulatory capture of the purest form such that Musk can influence every regulatory agency. And you have the gall to project and say everyone else is in favor of regulatory capture. This blind sycophantry is getting more and more absurd.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re:

The President of the United States has the authority to look into any system of the executive branch. He can therefore delegate employees to look into those computer systems, and report back on the waste, fraud, and useless government bureaucrats.

Not if Congress doesn’t allow him to, which they haven’t.

In the past, BestNetTech has bemoaned regulatory capture. But now, BestNetTech supports it,

This has nothing to do with regulatory capture. If anything, giving Elon this much power is an example of regulatory capture, not a defense against it.

under the theory that once hired, only the bureaucrats themselves can examine their own work,

No, because certain members of Congress have oversight, and it’s not just their work but private citizens’ data being viewed here.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Doesn’t have to be a national scale.
Vigilantes, Inc.
I haven’t watched, but it’s all about the ‘legal ways’ certain swing states were stolen through preventing legal registered residents from voting through ‘challenges’, which only require you ‘live in the same district’ (I believe it was).
For example, some individuals challenged 10s of thousands of voters in their district, and suddenly those people no longer could vote (more complicated than that, but not really)…

You don’t have to compromise the whole nation, only those few ‘key’ counties that matter…

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Anonymous Coward says:

They "don't realize it"

Cuz this is a crackpot theory that literally only exists in your own delusional head.

“’has no actual or formal authority to make government decisions himself’

Yeah man, decisions are made by the president, Musk is just advising. Still COMPLETELY authorized to access to those computer systems Trump said he could.

This is just confused babbling at this point.

David says:

Re:

While I readily admit that “although they don’t realize it” is rather optimistic and the more likely completion is “but they don’t care shit about that”, your “COMPLETELY authorized to access to those computer systems Trump said he could” is utter bollocks as well.

Because it confuses the role of “U.S. president” with omnipotence. Trump was not in a position to authorize such access, and such authorization cannot happen anyway without going through the proper paperwork and channels.

The letter should be glaringly obvious even to idiots because otherwise there would be absolutely no guard against social engineering: just claiming “I am authorized to do this” cannot replace actual verifiable authorization.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

To paraphrase:

Trump can do no wrong.

Then why do you think it is that Elmo took one of two courses of action every time he fired one or more government workers?

a) He did the dirty at night, and by morning the freshly fired employees were locked out (Never mind that they were notified only by email, early that very morning.);

b) Used armed thugs to “escort” employees off of the property?

I contend that if you’re in the right, and doing things completely legally, then you don’t need armed thugs to do your dirty work.

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Rocky (profile) says:

Re:

It’s not the fear of saving money, it’s the fear of where sensitive personal information will end up and how it’s going to be used.

You don’t save money by doing what Musk and his cohort of “hackers” are doing, you use people who actually know their shit when it comes to financial systems.

There’s also no reason to copy anything, you analyze the data in-place – because the moment someone copies it without using compliant methods and hardware you have lost the chain of custody. Considering how they so far have proceeded doing things the risk of sensitive information being leaked is very high.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

It’s not the fear of saving money

It it absolutely that. Some of it is actual fraud and corruption, most of it is probably pet projects they don’t want exposed, but that is absolutely what they are afraid of, that stuff being exposed.

You don’t save money by doing what Musk and his cohort of “hackers” are doing

They’re not hackers, they were given admin access. And obviously you’re lying, since they’ve already saved several billion dollars.

Strawb (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It it absolutely that. Some of it is actual fraud and corruption, most of it is probably pet projects they don’t want exposed, but that is absolutely what they are afraid of, that stuff being exposed.

Don’t pretend to know the mental state of other people.

They’re not hackers, they were given admin access.

They made other people give them admin access without proper authorization. That’s hacking.

And obviously you’re lying, since they’ve already saved several billion dollars.

Obviously you’re lying because there’s no way to gauge that yet.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

…since they’ve already saved several billion dollars.

Pix, or it didn’t happen.

And if you think that firing several hundred gov’t employees is saving a billion bucks, then I’d like to have one of those jobs, please.

Remember, this isn’t about ‘pet projects’ or foreign cash outlays, it’s about decimating our own government, starting with the administration branch. Oh, you think that it will end there, that the judiciary and Congress itself are immune from these kinds of actions? Let me recommend a good shrink, because you already need one, and in a few more weeks you’re going to admit it.

Rocky (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

Some of it is actual fraud and corruption, most of it is probably pet projects they don’t want exposed, but that is absolutely what they are afraid of, that stuff being exposed.

Since you say there is actual fraud and corruption, you should have no problems at all presenting factual information that supports your statement.

My guess is that you are busily huffing the gas Musk pass regularly.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s been under a month, you utter ret@ard.

It’s also way past ‘Day 1’ fuckface. If you can’t meet a deadline, don’t commit to it.

Quite sure you were defending Biden’s “temporary” inflation so don’t lie and pretend that’s what you care about.

I care about the cost of groceries. When the fuck is President Musk going to fix it? Give me a timeline, fucko.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Why are you so afraid of saving money?

Because the cost of defending hundreds of lawsuits for illegal firings is going to be much, much greater than it would’ve been to simply keep the fired employees on the payroll in the first place.

Simple arithmetic; no morals, no ethics, no illegalities, no nation-up-in-arms, no budding financial crises, everybody goes about their business of bitching about the price of eggs and that’s it.

Ordinarily, I like to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, but in your case I’m going to make an exception….

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Elections have consequences remember?

I sure do. I’m waiting for one of those consequences that you, Koby, or whatever other simple-minded dipshit can’t seem to answer.

How about the price of groceries? Where’s that fucking consequence? And why is renaming the Gulf of Mexico a higher priority?

Buckle up, asshole – this question is going to follow you around just like infrastructure week for 4 years.

That One Guy (profile) says:

'We're not the WH so bugger right off with that'

Well that’s handy. In an attempt to shield Elon/DODGE from any consequences for their actions the DOJ just argued in court that they have no authority over other agencies, all they can do is ‘advise the president'(strange that Elon’s meant to advise himself, but okay).

Hopefully every other government agency is paying attention and are prepping their ‘your own DOJ argued you can’t demand anything from us, so fuck off’ letters of refusal for whenever Elon or his goons come sniffing around.

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