Instead Of Fact Checking MAGA, Democrats Have Moved On To Vibe Checking

from the no-other-way-to-couch-it dept

If you’ve been paying any attention to the political news in the last week, you may have seen stories about couch fucking, or dolphin porn, or burnt monkey testicles, or even cat ladies. Or really just about any of the comments coming out of the Harris campaign, or from other Democratic supporters, calling out the fact that Donald Trump and running mate JD Vance are just fucking weird, man.

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In the last week, there’s been a notable difference in the way the Democrats have campaigned against the Trumpist GOP, since Joe Biden dropped out of the 2024 Presidential election. The Democrats have not focused that much on debunking any of the many, many (many) falsehoods the Trump/Vance campaign spews. They haven’t even focused as heavily on the extreme policies the campaign is pushing (though, that’s a part of it).

Instead, they’ve leaned in deeply on just how fucking weird Trump and Vance and their core beliefs are. And, in many ways, this seems to be generating excitement, at least online, from Democrats who were kinda blah about Biden and his chances.

Of course, this kind of campaign-by-meme and focusing on mockery over policy was embraced by Donald Trump going back nearly a decade. It took forever for the Democrats to figure out a way to counter it. Trump’s entire argument against Democrats has been to constantly mock them and never engage seriously on policy. And it’s worked.

For years now, so many have insisted that the best way to respond to the Gish Gallop of Donald Trump is to try to actually debunk his many falsehoods. The emphasis on “fact-checking” everything has been an obsession of the media, though Republicans have turned fact-checking against the media.

I wrote eight years ago that fact-checking is mostly useless in convincing voters. As I wrote then, fact-checking often seems to reinforce and entrench opinions, rather than change them. Yet, so many Democrats (and media folks) seemed to think the way to deal with the non-stop flood of falsehoods from Republicans is to counter them with facts and policy ideas.

And, of course, those things have their place. But they suck as the main strategy for getting voters interested.

I’m reminded of a conversation I had long ago with Susan Benesch from the Dangerous Speech Project. She has spent many years studying so-called “dangerous speech,” which is speech that leads to real harm, as well as ways to counteract it. She pointed out that one strategy that is effective in some cases is mockery/humor as counterspeech. That’s not to say it’s the only strategy, but it’s often a useful one.

And it’s one that hasn’t really been used that much in response to Trumpism. Until now.

There’s just something powerful about taking back control over the framing. The MAGA world has moved the Overton window so much on certain issues. Perhaps the best way to make people understand this is to just shine a light on how fucking weird their positions are, and how out of touch they are with what most people actually believe.

Who knows if it will be effective in the long run. I have no sense about the political viability of it all. But at a first pass, it seems like it’s done an impressive job in reframing the debate away from this idea that Trumpworld are plotting to destroy everything (which feels unbelievable) to just: get a fucking load of what these dumbasses believe, and how incredibly dorky they are.

Already, Republicans are freaking out about it and trying to get the Democrats to stop calling them out on things like this. Hilariously, Vivek Ramaswamy is whining about it being “juvenile” and demanding that we get back to debating “policy.”

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Dude, come on. None of us were born yesterday. The Trumpist GOP has been “dumb and juvenile” from the day Trump came down the escalator at Trump Tower and started raining down insults and condescending nicknames on all who disagreed with him. It’s all been insults and ad hominems.

I’m sure that there will be some adjustments and attempts to counter these arguments, but for the first time in eight years it feels like Democrats actually realized that the way to go after Trump is not to try to respond to all the nonsense, but to actually trust that people can recognize the nonsense.

It’s not about saying “and here are the reasons this is nonsense.” Instead, they are now saying “holy shit, did you see that same nonsense I did? I mean… really! Are these guys that wacko?”

It’s not a fact check. It’s a vibe check. Those dudes are spewing utter nonsense, and they seem kinda creepy and weird.

And so far, it’s working.

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Comments on “Instead Of Fact Checking MAGA, Democrats Have Moved On To Vibe Checking”

I think describing it as “vibes” is reductive. The vibe is certainly part of it, but it’s not just about vibes. It’s about substance, too.

When we talk about how weird the Republicans are, we’re not just talking about Trump’s hair or whatever, we’re talking about Alito quoting a fucking 17th-century witch-hunter to justify overturning Roe. We’re talking about the Heritage Foundation wanting to put an end to recreational sex and the Project 2025 guy having ties to Opus Dei.

That shit is weird, man. Not weird like Trump’s spray-tan is weird, weird like a bunch of self-professed Christians running a guy who raped a woman and then responded to the allegations by calling her ugly is weird.

Context matters.

Like, if there’s a group of adults meeting in robes and calling themselves dragons and wizards, that’s a little weird, but if it’s a LARP session that’s a very different class of weird than if it’s a Klan rally.

— Thad
Made the First Word by Leah Abram

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Anonymous Coward says:

This guy shouldn’t be President ever again.

Should have added: 54% of people didn’t think he should have been President the first time, and a majority already rejected a second term.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

We’ll have to see what happens at the polling booths and beyond. We all know how Trump won his first term, but with any luck, the Russians are too busy with their illegal war on Ukraine (caused by their desire to interfere with its policies) this time around.

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31Bob (profile) says:

Mango Jabba has proven he is more than capable of spewing enough lies and horse shit that fact checking is moot. If he said it, it’s likely a lie. That’s his schtick and what he’s known for, for decades.

I don’t know if the vibe approach is workable, but I can say that when someone spends 100% of their fucking time lying our their asses, then really, does anyone need to do fact checking?

MAGA idiots will believe anything Orange Jesus 2.0 tells them. Anyone else, at this point, is either a fucking moron with an IQ lower than their hat size, or knows exactly who the orange assclown is and always was and most of us wish the bullet was about 2 inches to one side.

Fact Checking the assclown is a waste of everyone’s time.
In fact, Donald Fucking Trump is a waste of everyone’s time. He’s a venal piece of shit that never met a situation he would not make worse for his own gain. Literally.

It’s easier and often accurate to just assume what he said never happened or that it did happen, but it’s the opposite of what he said. He has a decades-long, repeated track record of exactly this.

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bobob says:

vibe check vs facts

When I was a grad student, I spent a couple of years off working in Houston. I was surprised at just how little logic and facts mattered to the average person.

I was used to being in an environment where everyday, I could have in depth conversations about anything. I could walk into some faculty office of someone I never met but who was an expert on something that interested me and have a conversation.

When I got back to grad school after living in houston, I was recounting my experience there. My advisor’s only comment was, Welcome to the real world.”

Don’t expect substance over style. The world does not work that way.

ECA (profile) says:

Re: Full all time

As Long as Iv been around, there was little back check into who did/does what, and HOW things got done, of Who did anything in congress.
Iv watched person THINK they knew their elected persons Voted the Way they Wanted, and upon looking up the votes. NOPE, they didnt.
At this time we have so many resources to see and find out Who did what, and only a few Go and look. Those who have, have changed their minds about our gov. and how things get done.

The Biggest problem tends to be, that NO ONE wants these jobs, Unless they have something to gain.
Im of the thought, that we NEED to move Congress and the president. To the middle of the USA, in a Wheat/corn field with a LARGE fence around it and restricted access, and a Giant Barracks, insted of housing. So they can Snore and bother each other. Force them to get things DONE.

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Koby (profile) says:

Not Working On Normies

It looks like X-Twitter has outpaced you so far, that Breitbart News is reporting on the memes.

The new “vibe check” is to tweet the text “JD Vance is wierd” followed by a picture of Biden sniffing a girl’s hair.

Then tweet “JD Vance is wierd” followed by a picture of Sam Brinton.

Then tweet “JD Vance is wierd” followed by a picture of trans activists flashing themselves at a white house event.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

JD Vance might not have fucked a couch, but Trump fucked a 13 year old and that’s what Koby loves about him

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Meanwhile, you insurrectionist, traitorous fucks can’t even handle a bit of mild ribbing, instead doubling down on the violent threats.

Cry to Putin and Xi some more, see if they care (they don’t).

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

I’d like to remind everyone that I am NOT typing this from either a prison cell or on a boat or something.

Being a communist is illegal in Singapore and I find it weird to be accused of being one, considering how communism has not worked out on a nation-state level unless you count it being a speedrun to a totalitarian dictatorship a good thing.

Furthermore, don’t you think accusing people of being communists, especially when you know little of them, is simply weird behavior?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

“Communist” is the modern right’s version of “witch.”

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
MrWilson (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

He doesn’t mean you’re an actual communist because he doesn’t even know what that means. The most Marx he’s read is the title screen to Horse Feathers and the most political science he’s studied is a rambling Trump speech he fell asleep during. Communist just means “person I don’t like” to him. It’s the political version of the n-word with a hard R for bigots and conservatives when they’re not overusing woke. The details don’t matter to them. It’s just about establishing the in group and the out group and then putting the pedal down on the oppression of the out group.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:3

I know exactly how they operate.

Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of ignoring slander that could put me in FUCKING JAIL.

Being a communist is illegal in Singapore. If I’m not in a jail cell, I’m most likely stripped of my nationality and forced to die stateless.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:4

You’re posting anonymously and getting called a communist by an anonymous troll. You’re probably okay. Also, slander is verbal. Online and in print, it’s called libel.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

Don’t call me a pedant, man. Someone might think you mean pedo and then the Republicans might reward me and put me in a position of power.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:6

“Still not taking the fucking risk,” said the individual openly calling the country he lives in a dictatorship and taking the fucking risk.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:7

Don’t you fucking patronize me, Herman, you STRAIGHT TERRORIST.

TERRORIST. TERRORIST. TERRORIST.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:8

Guy, for the umpteenth time, calm the fuck down.

Or you know what, don’t. It’s going to be amusing to watch you try to fight a case like Amos Yee. Or checks notes Ava Kris Tyler?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:10

I see your MrBeast apologism, and I raise you a SomeOrdinaryGamers video, and the follow-up after that.

But please continue defending child groomers because they’re born that way, I’m sure the legitimization of MAPs was exactly what you were all working towards. With Amos Yee as one of your lead representatives how could you fucking lose?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:11

Recently rehashing old information from before the more recent rebuttal by the person who is alleged to have been abused is not the best source, FYI. As for the rest of your comment, you have clearly run into others who have more abrasively attacked you for your online prosecution of people who are, y’know, innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, and thus committed this fallacy.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

You going to campaign for Ava in the middle of Hong Lim Park, chumley?

I don’t expect gaslit victims to recognize that they’ve been gaslit. It takes years to undo that damage. But because trans folk can never do any wrong I guess that’s going to be the hill you’re dying on. Or the Hong Lim Pakr you’re dying on.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:12

Or consider Occam’s razor: nobody wants to become the public face of someone going against one of the most influential individuals in our time and is trying to downplay the problem as a result. Like women who underreport spousal or partner violence.

Or does that not exist in your mind because it doesn’t fit the narrative you want to push?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:13

You’re trying to make me look like an IDIOT, Hyman. That WON’T FUCKING WORK, YOU TERRORIST.

TERRORIST. TERRORIST. TERRORIST.

This comment has been deemed funny by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Cushions aren’t consent

Which is worse bruh?

Being a couch fucker?

Or being a couch fucker apologist?

Anonymous Coward says:

As it turns out, rightfully mocking and ridiculing your opponent’s own insanity is an effective way of deflating the legitimacy of whatever nonsense they were spouting.

Here’s to hoping we’ll learn that one in the EU soon, too.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Metaphorically punching Nazis, though, is.

And unlike the punching down the insurrectionist scum always do, this metaphorical punching is not only effective, but also funny.

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

We are post-truth. Facts don’t matter anymore. If they did, president Trump never would have happened. Between Trickle-Down-Economics and the Iraq war, the right wing has blown all its credibility with rational people. To maintain any level of power, they necessarily had to create an environment where there is no objective truth.

Reality and facts are for the rational. Anyone thinking of voting GQP at this stage is the game needs a different tack.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Must really annoy you that half of the country loves former President Trump and are eager to vote for him in November!

This comment has been deemed insightful by the community.
Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

It’s disgraceful that millions of voters (they don’t deserve to be called Americans) hate this country enough to support that treasonous pedophile Trump

David says:

Re: Re: Re:2

That would rather be anti-karmic since those all-hailing the orange savior are typically anti-abortionists.

As opposed to Trump himself who changed his stance from being pro-abortion to pussyfooting around the issue while thoroughly courting the Federalist Society fanbois.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2 ''If you're poor it's your fault' isn't supposed to apply to ME!'

Oh no, if karma was real and wanted to twist the knife for those people they wouldn’t be aborted, they would be born as non-hetero/CIS minorities, so they’d get to experience what it’s like on the other side of their bigotry.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Meanwhile in reality, the numbers break down more like this:

10% Yay Trump!
10% Yay Biden/Harris!
15% Fuck Biden/Harris!
15% Fuck Trump!
20% Fuck ’em both, but I guess I’ll vote for one of the two since the other is worse.
30% Fuck everything (remember that even in 2020 only 2/3s of the voters voted).

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ThatOtherOtherGuy says:

Submitted a proof...

“Get out and vote. Just this time. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four more years, you know what: it’ll be fixed, it’ll be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christians…. Get out, you’ve got to get out and vote. In four years, you don’t have to vote again, we’ll have it fixed so good you’re not going to have to vote.”

Weird and Unconstitutional…

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

It’s true that Trump would be ineligible after being voted in a second time, but considering what happened the first time around, it’s very safe to assume that Russian would be the only thing spoken as soon as Trump enters the White House.

Don’t fall for the insurrectionist “fact checking”.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:2

At least I didn’t fuck a couch.

I’d have asked it out on three dates first.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Weird how you lot support someone who can’t even do his owm dirty work and have to rely on others, like the Russians, to do their dirty work for them, huh?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

Why was this truth censored? This is the wisdom provided by the gay activist from Singapore who wants Stephen T Stone to defend himself.

I don’t see what the problem is. I thought BestNetTech was above this homophobic behavior.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Some people think I’d support Trump is what happened.

Them’s the breaks, asshole.

And yes, I’ve seen how you fucking insurrectionists think.

hcunn (profile) says:

Re:

Trump’s people would tell you he was just “trolling the libs”, that this was a joke that no one should take seriously. The problem with that argument is that Jan 6 (2021) was not a joke.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'He was just spouting meaningless gibberish again' makes for a strange apologetic

What are you talking about, obviously the guy that kicked off an insurrection the last time he lost the election, who has publicly said that he plans to be a dictator(but only for a day, pinky-promise), picked as his VP choice someone who has made clear that he is a big believer in the idea of burning the current government down and replacing it with a ‘conservative friendly'(read: fascist) one, and (before it became politically inconvenient) had nothing but praise for the authors of Project 2025 couldn’t possibly have meant anything problematic when he told his supporters that if they vote for him this election they won’t have to worry about voting ever again.

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31Bob (profile) says:

Re:

Well yeah, but we already knew that about Republicans.

They’ve stood up and proudly declared themselves literal enemies of the country, bribed SCOTUS out in the open, with zero repercussions and worse.

They are the cancer infecting the US and sadly, I cannot excise this tumor.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Just because there's no instant solution doesn't mean there aren't solutions

On your own, no, you’re correct in that you can’t personally remove the tumor that is the anti-merican/republican party, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do anything, and first and foremost what you can do is vote whenever the opportunity presents itself and never vote for the anti-merican party so long as there is any alternative whatsoever.

If you are willing and able to do more you can also encourage family and friends to follow the same strategy, further undermining the anti-merican party’s support as more and more people not only vote but consistently vote against them.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Can you stop fucking the keyboard for just one post?

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

It’s his misguided attempts to evade the spam-filter and all it amounts to is him training it. You can’t cure the way he’s stupid.

Nemo_bis (profile) says:

Disinformation

This is good news. I hope we can finally get past this pretense that Trump won because “disinformation” and that we can restore the good old days by removing bad speech from social media. Just get better at your propaganda and call it what it is, there’s no need to hide.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Isn’t it weird that Trump couldn’t even win his own battles, instead relying on outside help and a deeply broken system to be number 45?

At least with Bush Jr, he could claim he was not expected to win his own battles. His own family has admitted as such.

ECA (profile) says:

Re: For everything trump said

The republican Conservatives, confuse and Hid everything they could, having groups in the audience Start the Applause, no matter WHAT Trump said. And the 2 words that are the Same, Conservative, Are NOT the same meaning. But you cant say that to religious Gun toting persons, that THINK they know what trump said.
Persons Even ASKED after the rally, about what trump said, and NONE could remember what he had said.

That One Guy (profile) says:

If a person speaks english, use english. If spanish, spanish. If gibberish...

When dealing with people who have wrapped themselves in their own emotional support realities where facts are only ‘real’ if the facts align with what the person already believes it makes sense to not attempt to fact check the ongoing avalanche of lies, since MAGAts haven been conditioned to ignore anything that contradicts what their convicted felon Dear Leader says and/or that they’ve been told by other MAGAts.

Personal attacks and insults on the other hand is something they speak quite fluently, and have been conditioned into believing is not only valid political criticism but more important than facts, so while it might seem childish it is likely to be more effective in communicating with a group of people with the mental abilities of children.

Anonymous Coward says:

Yes, most of the things said by trump and his followers is weird. I can’t think of anything they have said at the moment that is not weird.

Some of the stuff trump and friends do is also weird. Like putting a patch upon ones ear or wearing diapers. Are they all now going to start fucking couches? omg …. this is weird for sure.

What will the history books have to say about this time period? I imagine it have to be multiple chapters in order to cover the insanity.

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Thad (profile) says:

I think describing it as “vibes” is reductive. The vibe is certainly part of it, but it’s not just about vibes. It’s about substance, too.

When we talk about how weird the Republicans are, we’re not just talking about Trump’s hair or whatever, we’re talking about Alito quoting a fucking 17th-century witch-hunter to justify overturning Roe. We’re talking about the Heritage Foundation wanting to put an end to recreational sex and the Project 2025 guy having ties to Opus Dei.

That shit is weird, man. Not weird like Trump’s spray-tan is weird, weird like a bunch of self-professed Christians running a guy who raped a woman and then responded to the allegations by calling her ugly is weird.

Context matters.

Like, if there’s a group of adults meeting in robes and calling themselves dragons and wizards, that’s a little weird, but if it’s a LARP session that’s a very different class of weird than if it’s a Klan rally.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Agreed. At this point we really should assume anyone who believes in a sky imaginary friend is a child molester. It’s the moral thing to do.

Well, unless the imaginary friend got featured in Hades, those are cool. Or Nordics.

egftechman (profile) says:

About right

A good portion of the country doesn’t care about fact checking anymore. How many times have MAGA people, Fox News, etal been fact checked and they just keep spewing out more lies and people keep blindly following them. I hope we get to a point where facts matter again, but to win the “reality show” culture we’re now in, the “vibe” approach is likely the right move. It’s worked on the MAGA side, you ask any redhat what’s wrong with Biden, they will say “his failed policies have hurt this country”, but you ask what specifically those policies are and demonstrate how they’ve had a negative impact, they can’t answer…So the left basically has to resort to the same tactics.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Harris lied about Biden having dementia for 3 years

They actively covered it up. With the help of quite few “journalists” I might add.

Holy crap am I not worried about whatever “lies” you think Trump is telling.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

So, I suppose it’s okay if Reagan had dementia during his reign? JFK and his Addickson’s during his?

Trump also has dementia as well, btw.

I find it weird these Presidents are allowed to be sick and still be President. Then again, it’s also weird Ttump is allowed to get away with insurrection…

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Yeah i guess having dementia since birth and everyone covering up for it is better – they’re so much more experienced with it.

Elfin (profile) says:

Modern?

Nah, same shit from McCarthy in the 50s. Because, 50s are the last thing the GOP seem to remember.

Because that was before the whole Womens Sufferage and Civil Rights movements … before “Everyone got uppity”.

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Gabriel S says:

I have been mocking those losers for 8 years now. And I go hard, attacking their families, their lack of sex, their finances, their intelligence. My goal is to make them commit suicide. Trying to change them is pointless, but trying to end them can have excellent consequences.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

I don’t see why this comment was hidden. We at BestNetTech have mocked Republicans mercilessly since the Bush administration. Praying for Murdoch to come to a sticky end is literally an approved commenter sport. Hoping that consequences happen on straight white men is almost a moral obligation at this point.

bhull242 (profile) says:

Re: Re:

I don’t see why this comment was hidden. We at BestNetTech have mocked Republicans mercilessly since the Bush administration.

Yeah, this wasn’t about mocking anyone.

Praying for Murdoch to come to a sticky end is literally an approved commenter sport.

No, it isn’t. Moreover, it is one thing to state that you wish someone was dead; it is quite another to do something with the explicit hope that it will lead someone to kill themself. Even the former is often frowned on here, but the latter is usually condemned much more vehemently.

Hoping that consequences happen on straight white men is almost a moral obligation at this point.

No, it isn’t, especially since many straight white men did nothing particularly wrong, certainly nothing deserving death. But, really, the point is moot because this isn’t about wishing consequences happen but doing something with the express purpose (futile or not) of leading to their death. These are two very different things.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

especially since many straight white men did nothing particularly wrong

All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. And indeed, they have unjustly benefited from putting women and gender and sexual minorities down. They enjoyed power and privilege and relationships with women who do not want them to push a heteronormative society.

something with the express purpose (futile or not) of leading to their death

I said “consequences”. The death part is something that another anonymous poster fervently wishes on Murdoch. That said, if those consequences happen to lead to an expiration of functions critical to life, I see no reason for complaint.

dickeyrat says:

“The Trumpist GOP has been ‘dumb and juvenile’ from the day Trump came down the escalator at Trump Tower…..” Good job! Good on Amerika!! So now it’s downright kewl to be an Idiot. Take your brain out and play with it! Or better yet, No Brains, No Headaches! Some will say it’s been like that for eons; others will say we’ve simply been building toward this end. 75 years of staring mindlessly at a TV screen, and God only knows what the lead content of our general water supply may be. Point is, there’s nothing we can really do (although personally, I certainly intend to VOTE for the November follies!). The Amerikan public IS stupid enough to slam fat trump right into the White House–where he will remain as our dictator, Our Respected And Beloved Leader, for the remainder of his undeserved life. Who needs those pesky “elections”, anyway? Fat trump has already promised his Fellow Christians (yeah, right!) they will NEVER have to vote again (or even have the opportunity), once he’s restored and coronated in early 2025 (or sooner). SO, are you just trying to get by, working, trying to raise your family in the best manner possible? Then look forward to paying for those added Tax Cuts, to benefit our precious Billionaires! Reproductive freedom, such as Contraception availabilities? Forget it! Your kids will be raised Christian, like it or not, if they attend public schools. Hell (no pun intended), we might even be required to “register” at the Church Of Our Choice (so long as it’s Christian). The Trains will run on time (straight to the Camps: furreners, pesky dark-skinned people, then – who? Elderly, Disabled, LibTards–or anyone else deemed “undesirable”!) After Camps, what, Ovens?? This is how we Make Amerika Great Again! Now, won’t those Phlegmocrats be happy they sat on their own heads for forty-plus years, and allowed all this to take place?

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