Automakers, Insurance Companies, And Apps Are Non-Transparently Spying On Your Driving Habits And Hiking Your Insurance Rates
from the there-is-no-privacy dept
In 2023, Mozilla released a report noting that modern cars had the worst security and privacy standards of any major technology industry the organization tracks. That was followed by a great NYT report by Kashmir Hill earlier this year showing how automakers routinely hoover up oodles of consumer driving and phone info, then sell access to that data to auto insurance companies.
Originally, Hill found that GM was collecting both driver behavior and phone data, selling access to LexisNexis, which, in turn, sold access to insurance companies. Insurance companies then used that data to raise rates on the worst drivers — but also to non-transparently justify raising rates on everybody (“trust us, we have insider data we won’t show you indicating you should be paying significantly more.”).
Since nobody in this chain is being transparent about it, GM is now facing dozens of different lawsuits.
But Hill has found a thread and just keeps pulling. Her latest report on automakers documents how auto insurance companies are still gleaning data from apps on your phone that already have a problematic history on privacy and location tracking. Such as Life360, which was caught a few years ago funneling sensitive user location data to a broad number of barely regulated and extremely dodgy data brokers.
And they’re still doing it without being particularly clear with consumers, who routinely seem shocked when they learn the scope of the practices:
“No one who realizes what they’re doing would consent,” said Ms. Lomax, who canceled her subscription.
Auto insurance companies can buy detailed consumer behavior and location data from automakers, telecoms, app makers, or data brokers. And because the U.S. is too corrupt to pass a meaningful modern privacy law, or even implement some basic regulatory guardrails for data brokers, the whole thing has devolved into a privacy shitshow where we get at least one major scandal a week. And those scandals are getting progressively worse and more dangerous the longer the issue goes unchecked.
Companies in Hill’s stories can claim they’re being transparent or not sharing your data, but intentionally boxed in regulators like the FTC lack the resources or staff to police these issues at the scale they’re happening, so it’s not like anybody is consistently following up to make sure. Consumers generally have absolutely no idea they’re being closely monitored and how this data can be used against them, and companies often see little punishment outside of some brief public shaming to rein in bad behavior.
If this was all properly regulated and entirely transparent, there could be a future where everybody has a openly calculated driver score, and you technically pay lower rates for auto-insurance based on very clear metrics. Hill’s piece flirts with how more accurate, personalized driving and behavior data could prove particularly helpful for marginalized people harmed by current insurance practices that unfairly discriminate based on stuff like education level or credit scores.
But we’re talking about private companies motivated to pursue quarterly revenue bumps regardless of reality or ethics. Consumer advocates worry insurance companies are incentivized to use more detailed user behavior data not to improve things, but to justify entirely new bad decisions, like charging people who work the night shift more money because they drive at night.
A cornerstone of exploiting improved data collection to boost quarterly revenues will continue to be making sure the collection and analysis isn’t transparent to the public.
At some point there will be significant reform and a (hopefully) well crafted new federal law governing all of this, probably only after there’s a massive, unprecedented scandal. But right now it’s extremely difficult to get these companies to even be entirely honest about what they’re even doing.
Filed Under: automakers, cars, drivers, privacy, security, surveillance, vehicles




Comments on “Automakers, Insurance Companies, And Apps Are Non-Transparently Spying On Your Driving Habits And Hiking Your Insurance Rates”
True, but rather old news.
And corporate/government spying upon us via cellfones & computer devices dwarfs the automobile spying.
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I don’t know if it dwarfs it. Its all in the same bundle of wombat doodoo sprinkled with edible gold flakes sprinkled on top.
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My insurance company can stop taking my money or charge me more.
The government can throw me in a torture cage for the rest of my life.
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Do you live in NK?
Re: Re: Re:2
Nope. USA.
Re: Re: Re:3
Well, maybe we can avoid the FEMA death camps for another four years. Vote like your life depends upon it, cause it probably does.
Re: Re: Re:4
The torture cages have already been stood up for centuries and are currently passed off as “corrections systems.”
Our ostensible “justice system” is really just a convoluted legal system that allows those in power to throw the commoners into the torture cages at will.
They don’t need “FEMA death camps.” The camps and the mechanisms for getting us into them have been here the whole time. Those mechanisms are what one side is looking to expand.
Re: Re: Re:5
Well, they’re also looking to expand the torture that happens in the torture cages.
Re: Re: Re:5
shut up doomer
Re: Re: Re:6
Realism isn’t “doomerism.” Realism is necessary. If you want to go pretend everything is rainbows and puppy dogs, this is probably the wrong place for you.
Re: Re: Re:7
realism is also an excuse that doomers use
Re: Re: Re:8
The important thing is that you’ve found a set of mental gymnastics that enable you to rail against those that recognize reality rather than those who uphold that status quo.
Re: Re: Re:9
ah yes jail cells are totally torture cages/s
Re: Re: Re:10
Literally yes.
Re: Re: Re:11
no there’s a difference jail cells are for criminals torture cages are for torture people big difference
Re: Re: Re:12
In practice, that difference is not respected.
And even if we were perfect at making sure that only criminals went to our jails and prisons, they would still be torture cages into which we put criminals.
Re: Re: Re:13
so you’re basically saying that putting people in prison for crimes is death camp? wow just wow
Re: Re: Re:14
What I said is that the US’s supposed “corrections” system is geared toward torture rather than corrections.
Re: Re: Re:15
then what’s the solution to it if you can actually tell us instead of saying that and not forming a solution to the issue
Re: Re: Re:16
Literally stop trying to hide the problem would be the first step for you.
Re: Re: Re:17
so you’re not gonna tell me then why are you complaining about no solution when you can’t even form one yourself
Re: Re: Re:18
In what world is having a full solution ready required to recognize a problem?
As a general rule, systemic problems need to be recognized, discussed, and approached systemically.
Again, that’s just speaking for here in reality.
Re: Re: Re:16
“I’ve been shot!”
“Well if you can’t tell me exactly how to treat it, I’m just going to get upset and pretend you haven’t been shot.”
Re: Re: Re:17
“you been shot unfortunately i don’t know how to treat it so you might be screwed”
Re: Re: Re:18
Which is a totally reasonable thing to say in such a situation.
Much less reasonable is pretending not to see the wound.
Re: Re: Re:19
i know the issue my problem is that no ones forming a solution to that issue
Re: Re: Re:20
That requires discussion. How the fuck is anybody supposed to discuss it if you’re immediately shutting it down telling people to shut up and calling them names?
You’re actively agitating against the thing you claim to desire.
Re: Re: Re:21
i mean i would go somewhere else then tech dirt as there not alot of people to speak to that is not a troll or a sockpuppet
Re: Re: Re:22
Without a hint of irony, no less.
Re: Re: Re:22
This is essentially just an admission that you’re here to troll, and you’ve justified it by labeling the rest of us “trolls” and “sockpuppets.”
Re: Re: Re:23
you really are stupid aren’t you?
Re: Re: Re:24
but it’s not surprising coming from acs
Re: Re: Re:25
sockpuppet
Re: Re: Re:26
flooding the chat i see
Re: Re: Re:27
U r flodd
Re: Re: Re:28
can’t spell i see
Re: Re: Re:29
Ur not worth effurt
Re: Re: Re:30
still can’t spell
Re: Re: Re:31
ur stil not wrth efrt
Re: Re: Re:24
sockpuppet troll
Re: Re: Re:25
imagine copying the same words twice
Re: Re: Re:26
troll
Re: Re: Re:27
third time
Re: Re: Re:28
u troll moar than 3 tiemz
Re: Re: Re:29
4th time now
Re: Re: Re:30
now u just troll by counting how many times u troll
Re: Re: Re:31
now u just troll by counting how many times u troll
Accidentally hit the ‘U’ instead of the ‘I’ next to it, I see.
Re: Re: Re:32
u
Re: Re: Re:24
Every accusation a projection.
Re: Re: Re:12
“ail cells are for criminals ”
Let us not forget there some people wrongly held in prison.
https://innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-are-in-prison/
Re: Re: Re:13
that’s also another issue too
Re: Re: Re:14
No, same issue.
Re: Re: Re:8
troll
Re: Re: Re:9
sockpuppet
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It need not be either or.
Company cancels insurance, notifies gov who suspends your license (and maybe notifies you). Gov arrests you for driving on suspended and without insurance. They have your car impounded and throw you in the cage.
You miss work and lose your job and can’t pay for bail, lawyers and impound. A criminal record follows which denies you future jobs and housing. Effectively torturing you forever without the cage.
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Almost like the system was designed to end-run around the 13th Amendment rather than anything having to do with justice or corrections.
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Don’t forget that situation also increases your likelihood of ending up back in the torture cages.
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And this excuses said auto company spying how?
Tesla Insurance
If you get Tesla insurance, you get a safety score that clearly shows you the 8 parameters that determine the score (and your rate next month). And each time you drive you can look up what you did on that drive: Hard braking, following too close, driving after 11PM, unbuckled and so on.
Only works on Tesla cars, but this is an example of using the technology in a transparent and useful way.
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Based upon the Tesla record of low quality control, I would have reservations about trusting those measurements.
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I’m sure there is a hidden parameter “elon fanatic score”
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No one wants this. Everyone knows that this will be used to pass out token discounts, while also being leveraged to shaft as many people as possible?
Came to a hard stop because a dog ran into the road? You’re a bad driver, cough up $5 more.
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Insurance provider: “We’re hiking your insurance rate.”
Customer: “What for? I’m long-term customer and, I’ve never had to make a claim.”
Insurance provider: “The driving metrics we derived from our data are rather poor, so we’ve had to increase your insurance rate to compensate for the risk of an automotive accident.”
Customer: “But I’m a responsible, careful driver — who hasn’t had an accident in over twenty years!”
Insurance company: “Well, the metrics we derive from your automobile’s telemetry are computerized and objective… and unfortunately your calculated Driver Safety rating comes out below a satisfactory ‘safe driver’ threshold — so again, we have no choice but to raise your insurance rate, to compensate for the risk of an automotive accident.”
Customer: “That’s ridiculous.”
Insurance company: “Too bad. So sad.”
Insurance companies love the idea of people willingly putting spy boxes on their OBDII port for a small savings.
But what if we could avoid giving them any discount?
Your data is for sale at a price where its cheaper to buy millions of peoples data than offer a $25 discount per person.
Mind you there is nothing that says this data needs to be accurate, it just needs to flow. There is no context to the data, because that might make them need to consider if the hard braking incident was to avoid a worse driver who nearly caused an accident… you applied the brakes hard we need to charge you more!
Your credit score might be low because of medical debt, but all we know is magic number is low so we can charge you more, doesn’t matter you’ve been a customer for a decade you are more risky so we raise your rate, which makes it harder for you to get out of debt, which makes us charge you more, lather rinse repeat.
We offer a discount if you keep your car in a garage, doesn’t matter that a huge swath of the country resides in dwellings without garages. Made sense in the 1950s, not so much today. Makes much less sense if the insurance they are purchasing doesn’t cover replacement of the car.
We’ll give you a discount for not driving as much, lets ignore that people who drive less might not be as sharp a driver, or that a majority of car accidents happen less than a mile from home.
Data without context isn’t as useful as they pretend, but it does create a boogeyman you can’t fight against because you applied the brakes to hard (according to a chart none of us have ever seen). Its the data, it knows you did a thing, but not why which might make a difference.
Its a pity that every device people can buy has been turned into an alternative revenue stream for the seller without even a drop in price or any disclosures you can find in under 28 hours with a magnifying glass.
My bit about humans being unable to learn or to change course…
For all of the patriot act, parallel construction, “inadvertent” spying on americans by agencies barred by law from doing that, we aren’t really safer. But still the data is hoovered up, without context or understanding, because its how we’ll stop the bad people(tm) even as if you look at the after action reports after horrible tragedies that they had the data that should have warned them but they were to busy looking for the zebras that must have been making the hoofbeats they heard coming.
Basing anything other than credit upon ones credit score is simply stupid.
Re: Basing anything other than credit upon ones credit score is simply stupid.
“Basing anything other than credit upon ones credit score is simply stupid.”
True, but:
1) It increases profits.
2) We can’t prevent it. (Actually, we can prevent it but our bought-and-paid-for politicians want that juicy corporate money.)
If they are using phone data, you can just get a second phone with a different number.
Just pay for it with cash so there is no bank trail
Verizon prepaid plans have it where you purchase a card at the store to refill. Just pay for that with cash
In fact one store around here only does cash for for telephone refill cards. No checks or credit cards allowed
Just buy an older car that does not have that
I can see now why used car prices are so high
Folks want cars without the tattle tale device on it
And there sellers of older near mint condition cars without that stuff on it.
It’s not actually “spying” if you’re out in public. But, really, some of you people have an expectation of privacy regarding how you’re driving on public roads being shared–hopefully safely–with all of the other vehicles and pedestrians on and near those roads? Wow. Just how dumb are you folks?
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Here’s the thing, data-abusing insurance company shill, how you drive should remain private if the way you drive doesn’t cause any accidents. Right now, drivers have two choices: either come to a hard stop because a kid runs out in front of them on a suburban street and have their premiums go up as a result, or attempt to keep their premiums low by running over the kid and hope they get away with it.
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“expectation of privacy == how dumb are you”
Please explain your reasoning here as the opposite sounds more likely.
A person that lacks knowledge and experience might accept being surveilled 24/7 more readily than a person who is not lacking in education and experience.
In addition, lazy society and greedy assholes result in more “dumb” people.