We Teamed Up With Bluesky To Tell The Supreme Court How State Social Media Laws Don’t Take Into Account User Empowerment

from the empowering-users-is-important dept

As you know, the Supreme Court is now considering the NetChoice/CCIA cases challenging two similar (but not identical) state laws regarding social media moderation. The laws in Florida and Texas came about around the same time, and were clearly written to target ideological speech. Both of them put restrictions on how certain social media apps can moderate or even recommend certain speech.

As you’ll recall, district courts in both states found the laws obviously unconstitutional attacks on the 1st Amendment. On appeal, things went differently. The 11th Circuit agreed that most of the Florida law was unconstitutional (we think they’re wrong about the part they weren’t concerned with too). But the 5th Circuit went rogue and said that of course states can set whatever moderation laws they want (which is in conflict with later 5th Circuit rulings regarding state pressure on moderation, but I digress).

Anyway, you can follow along on the docket for the case at the Supreme Court, where NetChoice/CCIA filed their brief recently. This week, a bunch of amicus briefs are being filed, some of which are really interesting.

I wanted to focus on one brief in particular in this post: our own, written by Cathy Gellis. We teamed up with Bluesky (the alternative microblogging service that is building a federated protocol for social media) and Chris Riley (in his personal capacity as the operator of a Mastodon instance) to make some points that we don’t think other amici are likely to make.

The key point we tried to make is that so much of the arguments being thrown back and forth are really about who it is that gets to determine how a website moderates: should it be the government or should it be the website? If those are the only two options there are, then it already does seem obvious that it should be the website, not the government.

But, the key to our brief is pointing out that this assumes, falsely, that this is the only possible model out there. Instead, we highlight, that it is possible to envision a world in which users themselves get to decide, and any ruling that says the government gets to decide would fundamentally make that kind of user freedom and empowerment impossible.

A fundamental part of my Protocols, Not Platforms article (which, in part, helped inspire Bluesky) was that it would empower users to have more control themselves, or at least let them choose which intermediaries they trust to help them with algorithms and moderation, rather than relying on the same platform that they use for the hosting of the content itself.

For example, Bluesky has an amazingly useful feature called “custom feeds” and it has created a marketplace of algorithms so that you can create your own algorithms and share them with others, or you can just decide to use someone else’s algorithm (or even adapt it further yourself). That is, rather than relying on a company like Twitter or Facebook to decide what you should see, on Bluesky, you get to make those decisions yourself, or hand them off to someone you trust.

But, in that architecture, it means that Bluesky often won’t even know what algorithms people are using (the algorithms don’t have to live on Bluesky’s servers, indeed, Bluesky itself might never even be aware of them). But should these laws (or laws like them) apply to Bluesky, that kind of ecosystem basically would be effectively barred, because the law would limit what kinds of algorithms could work on Bluesky, and Bluesky itself would have no way to control those third party algorithms.

This ecosystem of platforms is necessary in order for there to be meaningful choices in what expression Internet users experience online. Platform choice, and the customization algorithmic choice enables, are what helps realize the expression-promoting value of the Internet and ensures it captures a diversity of expression by putting the choices of what expression to be exposed to in the hands of users. It is not for the government to take away this choice, creating a platform or algorithmic monoculture, which is what the Florida and Texas laws threaten.

Similarly, we used the example of how comments here at BestNetTech are moderated, in which much of the moderation is actually handled by community votes, and how there’s no way to comply with these laws for such community moderation practices either:

But while the Copia Institute’s moderation practices can be described in broad strokes, they cannot be articulated with the specificity that the Texas law would require. For instance, the law requires that platforms disclose their moderation standards. See, e.g., TEX. BUS. & COM. CODE § 120.051. And it also puts limits on how platforms can do this moderation. See, e.g., TEX. CIV. PRAC. & REM. CODE § 143A.002 (banning certain moderation decisions, including those based on the “viewpoint” of the user expression being moderated). But even if the Copia Institute wanted to comply with the Texas law, it could not. For instance, it could not disclose its moderation policy because its moderation system is primarily community-driven and subject to the community’s whims and values of the moment. Which also means that it could not guarantee that moderation always comported with a preannounced “Acceptable Use Policy,” which the Texas law also requires. TEX. BUS. & COM. CODE § 120.052. It would also be infeasible to meet any of the Texas law’s additional burdensome demands, including to provide notice to any affected user, TEX. BUS. & COM. CODE § 120.103, maintain a complaint system, TEX. BUS. & COM. CODE § 120.101,24 or offer a process for appeal,25 TEX. BUS. & COM. CODE § 120.103. None of these faculties are features the Copia Institute has the resources or infrastructure to support. In other words, the Texas law sets up a situation where if the Copia Institute cannot host user-provided content exactly the way Texas demands, it effectively does not get to host any user-provided content at all. Or, potentially even worse, it would leave BestNetTech in the position of having to host odious content, including content threatening to it, its staff, or others in its reader community, in order to satisfy Texas’s moderation requirements.

There are all sorts of other important 1st Amendment reasons why these laws are deeply problematic. But we assumed (almost certainly correctly) that the briefs from NetChoice/CCIA and other amici will cover all of that.

Our brief was more focused on highlighting how these issues go beyond just the 1st Amendment concerns of big websites, but how they might impact a new generation of social media platforms, like Bluesky and Mastodon, whose very models and infrastructure are fundamentally different from the “giant silos” of today’s major social media platforms.

Too much of the discussion assumes that there are only two parties who might have a say in the moderation of social media: governments and the platforms. But we want to make the court aware that a new generation of services are focused on enabling the users themselves to make that choice, and if these laws are allowed, it could wipe out that possibility.

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Companies: bluesky, ccia, copia institute, netchoice

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Comments on “We Teamed Up With Bluesky To Tell The Supreme Court How State Social Media Laws Don’t Take Into Account User Empowerment”

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Matthew Bennett says:

"Social media moderation" clearly often targets ideological speech

Indeed that’s the whole problem. Entire avenues of speech completely walled off.

Call all Christians “White nationalist fascists”? That’s fine.

Refuse to agree “transwomen are ‘real women'”? Suspended.

Against illegal immigration? Racist, banned.

Want to “free Palestine, from the river to the sea”? (THat’s a direct call for genocide, btw) That’s fine.

Want anyone who’s unvaccinated to be denied medical care and die? That’s fine.

Suggest that covid vaccines have little to no effect on transmission? (Factual, Actual Science, and at this point completely proven) Shadow-banned, no one will see this, and when we perjure ourselves in front of Congress MM will lie about it and claim everyone else has the definition of “shadowban” wrong

Censoring ideological speech was always the point, always the problem. It also, btw, denotes a clear editorial position.

And no, “moderation” (you just mean censorship) is not “free speech”, even when by private parties. It’s legal, but it is the opposite of free speech, and calling it that is just Orwellian Newspeak.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Notice how you didn’t even contest that?

Why should he? Are you so fucking inbred that you think every bad faith argument you present has to be contested when most people spend just enough time to flag your idiocy and move on.

And when it comes to “ideological speech”, that’s just you and other assholes using a different wording for “I’m a raging entitled asshole who want to force my speech on others”.

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Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

I also didn’t contest it because a platform has every right to moderate speech expressing an ideology that the platform’s owner doesn’t like. If that weren’t true, pro-queer Mastodon instances would be forced to carry anti-queer propaganda and Truth Social would be forced to carry anti-Trump propaganda. Neither of those outcomes are good.

Anathema Device (profile) says:

Re: Re:

What gets me is there is literally nothing to stop the usual suspects here buying space on a server and spinning up their own blog, or mastodon or lemmy instance, where they can spew forth ad nauseum with any puerile views they have on any subject they want without the slightest hindrance. And their three imaginary friends can join them there.

But no. What they want to is be irritating and inflammatory, in the hope of causing a fatal cancer in the body of public discussion.

Since I bit the bullet and blocked all anonymous commenters here, the comment sections are much easier and more pleasant to read.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

What gets me is there is literally nothing to stop the usual suspects here buying space on a server and spinning up their own blog, or mastodon or lemmy instance, where they can spew forth ad nauseum with any puerile views they have on any subject they want without the slightest hindrance. And their three imaginary friends can join them there.

It’s that last bit that’s the real stumbling block to any such service being created and sticking around in that those sorts of people aren’t all that interested in a platform where the only people on it are trolls and other toxic people like themselves, and even they can understand that any such platform is only going to have people like them using it after a while as they drive everyone else away.

The reason they keep insisting that they are owed a right to use the popular platforms is that that’s the only way they can get the audience they crave, as they understand at least on some level that if people have the choice the majority aren’t going to want to be around them and certainly aren’t going to switch to and stick around on a platform run by people like them.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Again, Matthew…

Social norms are not censorship, and they tend to shift and change when more knowledge is revealed.

Property rights are also not censorship and the bedrock of 1A and all free speech hinges on private property rights.

So why do you hate private property rights, Matthew?

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

To clarify, Matthew, since you love to put words into my mouth.

I did not call for any form of genocide.

I did not even refer to what’s happening in the Middle East.

Calling bullshit on both Israel’s and Palestine’s (really Hamas at this juncture, and by extension Saudi Arabia, Iran and their not-American sugar daddies) flimsy excuses to murder one another en masse is the social norm I was referring to.

Realizing people are people and thus deserve everything in the fucking Constutition, regardless of how they identify themselves as, is the social norm.

Being able to own property AND chase anyone out as they see fit is the social norm, right down to castle doctrine.

You are free to be racist, bigoted, call for the reformation of the Confederate States, stage an insurrection and perhaps join in Israel’s continued spanking of Palestine until the country dies from said spanking all you want. 1A certainly… allows you to do that.

All I ask is that you do it out of my house, and preferably in a public, government-owned or funded area where everyone can see.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

You just claimed advocating for genocide was a “social norm”.

But what about his ‘freeze peach?’ We can’t censor him, can we? Who the fuck are you to silence him?

I thought censorship was wrong. Now you want to stifle the guiding principle that seems to drive all of your moronic ramblings?

Have someone explain it to you. Because you’re dense as all fucking hell.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re:

Call all Christians “White nationalist fascists”? That’s fine.

They earned that, so if they don’t like the label, they’re free to change the behavior that earned it for them. Fuck them and their ‘morality police’ wanting to know what other people do in their bedrooms – send those assholes to Iran, where they belong.

Refuse to agree “transwomen are ‘real women’”? Suspended.

Yup, probably because no one asked for your opinion. Another category of unwanted assholes demanding an audience and getting pissed that no one wants to fight with them, nor give a shit what they think. Fuck those people too.

Against illegal immigration? Racist, banned.

And yet, I’m sure you’ll whine like a bitch about your hamberder costing more because ‘no one wants to work’ for nothing. Who’s going to pick the watermelons, fuckface? You?

I’ve got a great immigration policy – prosecute the welfare-queen farmers who hire the illegals. Then you’ll see change, and you won’ have to keep patching up that wall that Mexico never paid us for.

Want to “free Palestine, from the river to the sea”? (That’s a direct call for genocide, btw) That’s fine.

Fuck those people too. They’re like the Christian nationalists, wearing different dresses. Perfect illustration as to why assholes fighting for some impotent god will never be reasonable and should be just left to rot. Let ‘god’ sort it all out.

Want anyone who’s unvaccinated to be denied medical care and die? That’s fine.

Yep, fuck those morons too. They should stick to their principles and die. If medicine doesn’t work or shouldn’t be trusted, why the fuck wouldn’t they just go to Tractor Supply to treat their ailment with horse dewormer? Failing to follow through with your anti-vax bullshit sure isn’t what I expected from a patriot. Commitment – look it up.

But I’m also willing to bet that those geniuses never considered that they were fed anti-vax misinformation just so that they would die in large numbers, like good republican sheep. Think about it – Trump never locked anyone up, so the deep state is alive, well, and still feeding you simps bullshit. We try to clue you in, but you keep slapping us away. By all means, believe what you want, keep being wrong, and drop dead at home.

Suggest that covid vaccines have little to no effect on transmission? (Factual, Actual Science, and at this point completely proven) Shadow-banned, no one will see this

The Venn diagram of the assholes denying vaccines and the morons who took up valuable hospital space once they
realized they were full of shit is a circle. Another group of people we could do without competing for a Darwin award. We tried to tell you morons, but no, you chose to die alone with a tube down your throats instead. Keep up the good work!

And no, “moderation” (you just mean censorship) is not “free speech”, even when by private parties. It’s legal, but it is the opposite of free speech, and calling it that is just Orwellian Newspeak.

Sure it is. Blubber about that shit at my house and I’ll moderate your stupid ass out the door head-first. Now extrapolate ‘my house’ with ‘my platform’ and stop cluttering up the comment section with your fucking complaints. Do something, instead of just whining like a bitch.

Orwellian Newspeak

Seriously, prole? You’re going to project 1984 now? Tell me dumbass – how do you feel about some delusional loofah-faced shit-gibbon being a dictator ‘only on day 1?’ The only difference I see between you idiots and 1984 is the color of the BB you follow (although in the 1984 version BB has something of a sepia-tint to him, so there’s that).

A whole bunch of you whiny fucks are advocating for your own little Oceania right here in the US. You’ve got states full of simps like you just itching to play out their ‘thought police’ fantasies, sending those who are different to the Ministry of Love for ‘reeducation.’ It was sad when I read it originally, and pisses me off more so, with those ‘christian’ pieces of shit sending their kids to reeducation camps, should they see an LGBTQ+ person in the wild. Alas, that’s what happens when your ‘morality’ comes from a 5th-century bastardization of books written by desert camel herders who had no idea where the sun came from.

Have a great day, and I hope this has been useful.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Comments like “fuck those people, let them die” don’t exactly give you the moral high ground.

It’s their choice to ignore common sense information in favor of doing the stupidest thing possible, in some kind of protest to prove who can be the biggest idiot. I’m just in favor of letting them get harmed through their own stupidity, rather than trying to help fools who were so cocksure that they were right and everyone else was wrong.

I really don’t need any kind of moral high ground when it comes to giving idiots the freedom to kill themselves.

They’ll die for their freedums – and I’m fine with it.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

Yeah buddy, you just exactly proved my point.

Btw, not that it really affects things, but I’m pretty scientifically literate and not at ALL anti-vax, but the covid vaccines simply don’t work that well. They are pretty much good for reducing mortality rate once infected and that’s about it….in a disease that isn’t very deadly. Some vaccines work great! MMR for example. Some work poorly, like the flu vaccine (~40%). The covid vaccines are worse than that.

That’s not anti-vax, that’s just facts, the science. “The Science” is not a religion, you needn’t have faith in it.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

but I’m pretty scientifically literate

You are? That’s a surprise considering your stupid takes on things.

but the covid vaccines simply don’t work that well

  • Moderna, 95% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID
  • Novavax, 90% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID
  • Pfizer-BioNTech, 95% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID

All vaccines severely lessen the chance for contracting long COVID.

So what metric are you specifically hung up on that shows the vaccines didn’t work well? My guess it’s something that doesn’t matter in the big picture because you may think you are scientifically literate but you have a tendency to fixate on things that doesn’t actually matter.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

They are pretty much good for reducing mortality rate once infected and that’s about it

And your point is what?

Would you think getting the vaccine after you’re mortally ill is going to do anything at all? This is why I don’t give a shit about you people. You ‘reason’ your way out of common sense trying to make some point that’s not a point at all.

So don’t get the vaccine, dipshit. And if you fall ill, drop dead. It’s that simple.

in a disease that isn’t very deadly

That’ll be a relief to the 1.1M Americans who died from it, I’m sure. And for all of the anti-vax RHRs still keeping up the dumb fight – keep going! Deaths in Republican-leaning counties were almost 3 times more likely to die from covid, mostly because they’re dumb fucks who would rather trust Tractor Supply for their health care.

Less Trump voters = good for the USA

Less Trump voters because they’re dying from a preventable disease, just to ‘own the libs’ = PRICELESS

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Ethin Probst (profile) says:

Re:

Hey, Mathew:

If you ever come to my house and say something I don’t like, and I kick you out and tell you never to come back, does that mean I just censored you? Or: if you come to my house, to a party I’m throwing, and you start talking about something super political, and I yell at you guys and tell you to STFU and that there’ll be no political discussions at the party, did I just moderate you, or censor you? I mean, I couldn’t have censored you, because your free to leave and talk politics elsewhere, right? I can’t stop you from doing that. Even if you went to a bunch of parties, all of which refused to allow political discussions, would you still be censored? No, because you’d still be able to go elsewhere.

Now, equate this to an online platform, which is essentially the same system: your in someone elses house, even if it’s virtual. If you say something they don’t like, or start discussions they don’t want you talking about, and they shut you up, is that moderation or censorship? I would think it would be moderation (i.e., the practice of overseeing and regulating content, conversations, or interactions within a given platform or community to ensure they comply with established guidelines, rules, or standards), not censorship (i.e., the deliberate suppression, prohibition, or restriction of information, ideas, or expression by a controlling authority, government, or institution). I’m genuinely curious how you conflate moderation with censorship. The courts have, repeatedly, ruled that your take on this argument is incorrect and legally wrong. An act of moderation is not censorship if there is no governing body behind the act of moderation; even if there were a governing body behind said act, the act must be coercive in nature, i.e., have some kind of threat behind it. An example of this would be governments passing restrictions on hate speech, obscenity, or national security concerns, which could be seen as a form of censorship.

As a matter of fact, chapter 71 of title 18 of the United States Code is all about obscenity, see here.)

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re:

Yeah, no, a public platform half the world participates in isn’t a house.

By the same argument you could never force a baker to bake you your gay cake just cuz you can’t force me to bake you a cake in my house, and you were super supportive of that, weren’t you? (You still can’t, but for different reasons)

That was just the dumbest argument ever, it falls apart so easily.

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Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

The fuck kind of half baked strawman is that?

And there’s no fucking court in the US that would agree with your assessment that private social media isn’t private. It’s just not a thing. It will never be a thing, and only the psychologically untethered would begin to think it is a thing.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yeah, no, a public platform half the world participates in isn’t a house.

I love how the guy pretending to be a conservative is effectively calling for nationalization of private websites.

You’re such a communist!

Also, hilarious how you pretend to be in favor of free speech, but your entire argument is that the gov’t must take away the free speech editorial rights of private companies.

You’re an anti-free speech, authoritarian communist in your views.

You’re just too stupid to realize that’s what you’re advocating for.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yeah, no, a public platform half the world participates in isn’t a house.

Then what is it? Public property?

Tell me how in the land of the free, a private company can’t make its own decisions around what it chooses to allow on it, you fucking communist scumbag.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re:

is that moderation or censorship?

It’s moderation when they warn you, and censorship when they suppress you (preventing you to post any non-sense or deleting you post afterward).
In a public place (where everybody can access even the ones you don’t invited), you cannot censor every single person before they talk, and once they do, other people hear him, you cannot ban everybody that would hear anything, and suppress all the conversation.
But in a private place, you could invoke any reason to censor anything (putting the music aloud to ensure the rest of the sentence would be silenced), so the censorship could come without any warning, and clean up every bit of the conversation until it’s completely forgotten.
It’s all about what sort of party you want to throw the your audience. Is that okay to sing Nazi songs at 4am because some like to sing and you don’t care that your friends, family and neighbors would be chocked that you’ll let this in your own house? No? So you have to pick the ones that you could trust, or warn everybody to be correct (as you defined it).
But if you don’t care about anything, and you finished building your big bunker to give massive orgies, then invite virtually everybody to it, without any moderation, it could be out of control, and without any censorship, you could be left alone to clean up all the mess. It won’t be much fun, and maybe you would be a little more moderate for the next time.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

It’s moderation when they warn you, and censorship when they suppress you (preventing you to post any non-sense or deleting you post afterward).

It’s moderation in the second instance, too.

Any social media service that isn’t run by the government is privately owned, regardless of whether it’s publicly traded or privately held. (Pre-Elon Twitter was publicly traded, after all.) Such services are akin to privately owned open-to-the-public businesses in meatspace: They can refuse service and even kick you out if you violate their rules (so long as their rules are within legal limits). Usage of those services is a social privilege; having that privilege revoked is not equal to having the right to free speech suppressed by the law, violence, or threats thereof.

Anonymous Coward says:

Re: Re: If everything is censorship, nothing is

“If you ever come to my house and say something I don’t like, and I kick you out and tell you never to come back, does that mean I just censored you?”

But that’s the point—water down the meaning of censorship by broadening it so large, that when the state censors, it’s “basically the same behavior” as what private folks are doing and therefore okay. We already see it in state arguments for government speech being free speech. And when we call out state censorship, to cheapen the idea that censorship is bad by claiming all this other stuff is also censorship and it’s okay, when it’s not actual censorship.

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Mamba (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:

That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

What you’re advocating for CAN’T exist without fascism. It’s an impossibility. Which is why it doesn’t exist.
Once people are given the right of association and speech they will reject and expell offensive ideologies.
That’s, by definition, one of the most basic actions of a social group.

So the ONLY way to achieve what you’re talking about to force people to associate, to publish, and endorse ideologies they don’t agree with. And that’s totalitarianism that is reinforced with violence….making it fascism.

But none of this is just limited to social media. It’s everything. You. Can’t. Force. People. To. Carry. Your. Message.

Also, get fucked you shit weasel.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re:2

Once people are given the right of association and speech they will reject and expell offensive ideologies.

And what ideologies that people consider “offensive” changes from person to person. The ideology of “queer people should be allowed to live without fear of being turned into a statistic on a police blotter”, for example, is probably offensive to the kind of people who take GOP culture war bullshit seriously. But even if a minority of people find that ideology offensive, that still shouldn’t prevent them from rejecting that ideology and refusing to associate with anyone who espouses it. That logic extends to social media services run by people who consider that ideology to be offensive: their site, their rules.

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Anonymous Coward says:

Oddly enough, FIRE addressed just this point this morning.

Because social media platforms are private actors, they do not “censor” users when they choose what posts and accounts to delete or deprioritize. Instead, they engage in editorial decision-making…And as the Court held in Miami Herald Publishing Company v. Tornillo and other cases, the First Amendment bans government “intrusion into the function of editors.” That is because the First Amendment protects Americans’ — and American companies’ — right to speak, whether they choose to say everything, something, or nothing at all…Editorial discretion is speech, and calling it censorship does not make it so.

https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-supreme-court-only-you-can-protect-free-speech-online

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Rocky says:

Re:

Remember, these “fine folks” like to talk about the Marketplace of Ideas and when they invariably get moderated for their “ideas” they start screaming about how they are censored.

What they don’t understand and will never admit, is that the Marketplace of Ideas have rejected their ideas as shit.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: 'The free market(of products or ideas) is only great when it's on our side!'

Which is strange, you’d think such big supporters of the ‘free market’ would understand and be perfectly fine with the concept of ‘if your product isn’t selling that’s probably because no-one wants it and that’s on you’.

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Matthew M Bennett says:

Re: Re: Re:

Yes….because it was advocating insurrection.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about insurrection, actually. But it is pointing out the blatant hypocrisy on display. Cuz any republican looking to protest government in any way is quickly described (and investigated!) as violent terrorists…..democrats burning down whole city blocks is called “violent but peaceful”.

A republican saying exactly the same thing would immediately be investigated by the FBI, that’s the point.

That One Guy (profile) says:

Re: Re: Re: 'How dare you accuse us of being wannabe-tyrants, off with his head!'

Bloody hell, I hope someone warned the people on the ISS before that letter went out because the amount of projection in that first paragraph alone is staggering.

‘It’s those blasted democrats talking about instigating insurrections, engaging in criminal conspiracies and pushing for a civil war!’

You also gotta love the gross dishonestly of the letter in leaving out the very next sentence of the article he quotes which pointed out that the thing he’s hyperventilating about democrat-majority states possibly doing is already being talked about in republican states. Funny how he left that part out in his letter…

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Matthew Bennett says:

Re:

Yeah, I really like FIRE, actually, but the idea that private actors cannot censor is just wrong.

Private orgs can censor just fine, and there is nothing about “censor” that intrinsically means government is involved. But the 1A specifically censorship by government and now everyone is confused about that, forever.

Stephen T. Stone (profile) says:

Re: Re:

the idea that private actors cannot censor is just wrong

Of course they can. A private actor can censor others by using lawsuits, violence, or threats of either. But none of those are equivalent to kicking someone off a social media service for breaking the rules because trying to shut people up everywhere is trying to stifle someone’s civil rights and kicking someone off a platform they don’t own is revoking a social privilege. The law has an obligation to protect people who express unpopular ideas from having their speech suppressed by either the government or private actors; it has no such obligation to make a platform host those ideas against the will of its owners.

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That One Guy (profile) says:

If you wouldn't accept your own rules applied to you...

If it wouldn’t risk setting entirely the wrong precedent and hypocrisy wasn’t a core pillar of the modern GOP/conservative movement it would seem the best way to hammer home the problem would for a democrat majority state government to apply the GOP’s own argument against them, instituting laws that required social media platforms to purge any ‘alternative facts’, host any corrections to said ‘facts’ or both.

If the likes of Twitter or Trump Social were told by state governments that they had to host (among other things) any pro-Biden/anti-Trump content users posted under pain of legal penalties I’ve no doubt that they’d be screaming loud enough to be heard from space, yet somehow the party of small government is perfectly fine arguing that they should be able to dictate what speech online platforms will and will not host, free speech, property rights and the first amendment be damned.

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