Madison Square Garden’s Facial Recognition Tech Boots Lawyers Litigating Against The Venue
from the ejecting-your-enemies-under-the-guise-of-venue-safety dept
A private company can legally declare it has the right to refuse service to anyone (with a very small number of limitations under the law, mostly around discrimination against protected classes). The application of facial recognition tech makes it much easier to do. Rather than post photos and bad checks on the back wall to inform employees who isn’t welcome, companies can utilize tech companies and their databases of unknown provenance to make these calls for them.
MSG Entertainment — the company running New York’s Madison Square Garden and other venues — has chosen to turn over its doorman duties to facial recognition tech. Setting aside the fact (for the sake of argument) that this tech tends to subject minorities and women to higher rates of false positives/negatives, recent events at MSG Entertainment-owned venues suggest maybe it’s not a wise idea to do certain things just because you can.
For instance, this mini-debacle, which involved separating a mother from her Girl Scout daughter when both were trying to attend a show at Radio City Music Hall:
Kelly Conlon and her daughter came to New York City the weekend after Thanksgiving as part of a Girl Scout field trip to Radio City Music Hall to see the Christmas Spectacular show. But while her daughter, other members of the Girl Scout troop and their mothers got to go enjoy the show, Conlon wasn’t allowed to do so.
That’s because to Madison Square Garden Entertainment, Conlon isn’t just any mom. They had identified and zeroed in on her, as security guards approached her right as he got into the lobby.
Conlon was approached by security, who told her the facial recognition system had flagged her. They asked for identification and then proceeded to eject her from the venue. No explanation was given, but Kelly Conlon has reason to believe the ejection was personal.
“They knew my name before I told them. They knew the firm I was associated with before I told them. And they told me I was not allowed to be there,” said Conlon.
Conlon is an associate with the New Jersey based law firm, Davis, Saperstein and Solomon, which for years has been involved in personal injury litigation against a restaurant venue now under the umbrella of MSG Entertainment.
Was Conlon reading too much into this? If this were an isolated incident, the answer might be “possibly.” But Conlon isn’t the only lawyer working for a firm involved in litigation against MSG that has been refused entry by the company’s facial recognition tech:
A Long Island attorney says he was kicked out of a Knicks game after getting flagged by facial recognition technology at Madison Square Garden — the same system the company used to boot another lawyer from a Rockettes show.
“I was upset — we had a whole night planned out that got botched,” said lawyer Alexis Majano, 28. “I said, ‘This is ridiculous.’”
Majano — whose law firm has a pending lawsuit against Madison Square Garden Entertainment in an unrelated matter — was headed into the game against the Celtics with pals on Nov. 5 when he was stopped on an escalator, he said.
Majano works for law firm Sahn Ward Braff Koblenz. The firm recently filed a lawsuit on behalf of a person who fell from a skybox at Madison Square Garden while attending a concert. He’s just one of several lawyers who have apparently been banned from attending events hosted by MSG Entertainment simply because they work for firms engaged in litigation against the company.
These bans are now leading to lawsuits. And these lawsuits target ejections dating back to this summer, when lawyers started to notice a strange pattern of ejections targeting members of law firms engaged in litigation targeting MSG Entertainment.
While private companies do retain the right to refuse service to anyone for nearly any reason, the question being asked is whether being adjacent to litigation is a legal reason to refuse service, especially since the ejections occur after MSG Entertainment has already chosen to sell tickets to people it then ejects when they arrive to make use of their purchased goods.
Legal or not, the optics are terrible. Not that it appears to matter to the person running the company.
Its chief executive, James L. Dolan, is a billionaire who has run his empire with an autocratic flair, and his company instituted the ban this summer not only on lawyers representing people suing it, but on all attorneys at their firms. The company says “litigation creates an inherently adversarial environment” and so it is enforcing the list with the help of computer software that can identify hundreds of lawyers via profile photos on their firms’ own websites, using an algorithm to instantaneously pore over images and suggest matches.
It’s a free market. There’s no Constitutionally-guaranteed right to event attendance. Private companies can, for the most part, pick and choose who they want to do business with. But deploying unproven tech with a proven track record of being wrong far too often puts people at the mercy of both billionaires and whatever method they’ve picked to increase ejection efficiency. If MSG is concerned lawyers might be trying to gain an edge by attending events simply to do some snooping, it seems it might be able to find a court-based solution that serves this purpose.
This is a bad look for MSG, even if it’s completely legal. It indicates it doesn’t have much confidence in its defense against these lawsuits. It also indicates the facial recognition tech systems aren’t there to ensure public safety, but rather to allow MSG Entertainment to refuse entry to anyone it considers to be an enemy. And if it continues to work this well, it will encourage other businesses to do the same thing: silence critics by simply refusing to allow them entry.
And it’s a tactic that’s pretty much guaranteed to encourage at least the state’s government — via court decisions or legislation — to issue mandates that restrict the private rights of businesses. In the long run, this probably isn’t going to work out for MSG’s management. And, until it’s all settled, the company can continue to punish its perceived enemies for committing the offense of providing legal services to people who feel they’ve been wronged by MSG Entertainment. If MSG wants to prove it’s in the right, let it do it in court. Deploying sketchy tech to blacklist people who’ve never violated any venue rules is a terrible way to handle a “problem” that appears to only exist in the mind of the MSG’s owner.
Filed Under: ejected, facial recognition, james dolan, lawyers, msg
Companies: msg, msg entertainment




Comments on “Madison Square Garden’s Facial Recognition Tech Boots Lawyers Litigating Against The Venue”
Welcome to the new world
So what would happen if MSG started refusing entry to all members of a police department once a single cop from that department had given a ticket to an MSG executive?
Want to amp up the pressure to prevent strikes or unionization? Striking Starbucks employees banned from ever visiting a Starbucks again.
Posted something negative about a meal at KFC to social media? You’ll never be allowed to eat at a KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, or any other Yum! Brand restaurants again.
Welcome to the new world of corporate retaliation! What could possibly go wrong?
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When they start hiring men with guns to enforce those.
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Why would you want to go somewhere you're not wanted?
I don’t understand why anyone would want to go somewhere they are not wanted.
There are lots of places to go where they will be happy to see you and take your money. Go there instead.
I’d be really uncomfortable if I forced my way in knowing that I was not welcome.
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First, that doesn’t excuse the pettiness of the company, but second, they didn’t know they weren’t allowed until they already bought tickets and showed up. And if you like a sports team or an entertainment troupe, you don’t get to decide where to see them when they come to town.
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… and third, there was no performance reason to eject them: Their presence at the venue had not – at that event nor in the past, nor at other MSG-owned venues – caused disruption to MSG’s venue business.
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That’s as far as the truth extends in your comment.
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Re: Why go where you're not wanted?
Frankcox said it really really well:
There is a bit of a failure on MSG’s part to allow ticket sales to the unwanted, and not to warn the unwanted they will be turned away. That’s not fair, but it’s not unlawful.
There is the right of any property owner (and some managers) to restrict the access or use of that property. For easy example, you are welcome to not come to my door, enter my house, and sleep in my bed, no matter what ticket you hold. My house. My rules. MSG has an equal right.
They use a technology that has Type-I and Type-II errors. Welcome to reality-land. ALL tech has result errors. That’s why Boeing, SpaceX, and others use multiple redundant systems… so that one error not seen in other systems, can be excluded from the resultant event. This is also why Tesla’s non-redundant system will be re-engineered or dead.
Facial recog – whatever.
Ejecting lawyers – sure.
MSG’s right to restrict access – sure.
I’m not quite sure where “the problem here” is. To me, and yes I am a civil libertarian, I believe I get to restrict who gets to enter my property. I get to choose the tools to help me do that. I know they’re less than perfect and I’m okay with that.
Where’s the story?
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Using the power to refuse service to attack lawyers aiding those you have done wrong to. It is an attitude that leads to an Aristocracy living off of the serfs that they keep in their place by all means possible.
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Allegedly done wrong.
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So ok, i want you to pay a couple hundred bucks to got o my backyard, pay for travel to there, and any other incidentals, so i can tell you AFTER you arrive, AFTER utilizing your ticket to my backyard, which now means you can get no refund, that you need to leave immediately.
Nope, not gonna tell you before you purchase anything, or before you get to the point that you can’t get a refund for anything, only after.
Do ya see the problem yet? does someone need to sell you a car and then tell you when you come to pick it up sorry, you can’t have it or a refund for you to get it?
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The problem is that a contract has already been formed. If the ticket holder violated no policies, then the venue is in breech of contract. Considering that economics tells us that a purchaser values the thing being purchased for more than the dollar value, a mere refund will not suffice. Private litigation should rightfully penalize MSG to the tune of at least thousands of dollars in damages.
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Hm, so among Koby’s other failings, he apparently doesn’t know what breech means.
Re: Re: Really?
“Facial recog – whatever”……. I am a civil libertarian”.
Are you sure about that?
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Sure am, JUST as I am sure you deleted the context:
There ya go.
I do believe in liberties, and that doesn’t mean dipshits like you are welcome on my property.
Re: Re: Re:2 breach of contract
If you sell me a ticket to a public event on your property, then I am presumed to be welcome. Otherwise yhou have simply told me an untruth in order to part me from my money.
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Your property is not open to the public. Theirs is. You do not sell tickets allowing admission to your property, they do. These people exchanged goods (money) for being allowed to access the property, with no stipulations put forth that such contract would later be revoked for a non-stated reason. MSG violated the contract it had with this woman. That’s the problem.
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The ticket almost certainly, to high degrees of likelihood, had some boilerplate statements about management holding the right to refuse service, maintaining safety of venue, other assorted discretion of management that cover them kicking out anyone from a blameless lawyer to a drunken oaf for anything nor provably protected at any time.
Smart policy would have probably been to have refunded the ticket immediately.
Re: Re: Re:2 What about public money for a venue?
If a single nickel of public money was used in any way in support of MSG, there’s your problem. You cannot restrict access to a (even slightly) public venue.
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“There are lots of places to go where they will be happy to see you and take your money. Go there instead.”
OK… Is the band/team/whatever I want to see playing elsewhere I can get to? If not, there’s your problem – put up with some bad decisions on venue security, or never get to experience the things you want to experience.
Not so much “Litigating against the venue” as the headline states.
Conlon may work for a firm litigating against MSG, but has no personal involvement in any such cases.
On top of that, the venue Radio City Music Hall, where the Rockettes were performing, happens to be about a half-mile away from the venue that was being sued – an Italian resturant called Lavo. The lawsuit was a personal injury lawsuit filed in 2016 – before MSG acquired ownership of it.
So MSG was not preventing lawyers litigating one of its venues from surrepticiously investigating the venue or any other fantasy scenarios like that; it was vindictively attacking any associates of anyone who dared go against it by denying them access to a broad swath of venues.
After this incident, though, the lawyer firm is now attempting to challenge MSG’s liquor license on the basis of their violating the license’s requirements that they serve all members of the public except disruption / security risks.
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The article cited specific cases where mSG entertainment booted lawyers litigating against them. The headline is 100% true. And the article explicitly clarifies that the policy extends to anyone working at any firm involved in litigating against a property/business owned by MSG Entertainment.
The headline is accurate, and explicitly discusses your clarifications.
So yes. MSG booted lawyers litigating against the venues they tried to enter.
Re: Re:
Someone literate would understand that law firm litigaging =/= lawyer litigating
This is the problem for me. They can do what they want, but they need to inform the individuals in advance of purchasing tickets, making plans, and showing up. They’re causing people to spend money they otherwise wouldn’t have spent, including on family members who otherwise might not attend without the individual. That seems like cause for compensation.
Masks
This is an excellent example of why you should always wear your face mask. My anti-facial-recognition paranoia was quick to take advantage of the sudden, widespread acceptance face masks that was brought about by the COVID situation, and I see no reason to go back.
pulls out the typo bat & swings
“He’s just one of several”
She, pumpkin, she.
I think we should count this as a win for all POC who are members of the bar, it won’t work correctly on them.
How many lawyers need to make it past their draconian measures before they mothball it?
And just because no bad idea goes unpunished, how long until those working for MSG find themselves unwelcome in restaurants, stores, & other businesses who don’t want to risk allowing clearly mentally unwell people onto the property?
Re: Oooh! I have an idea...
Having always been something of a fan of nudging the metaphorical bee hive to see what will happen, all I want to do right now is see if I can track down some co-conspirators to spin up enough subterfuge to cause some sort of billing or service dispute between the facial tech company and the MSG parent company. The problem would then have security escort itself out.
Plan B: set up a few bogus social media accounts for people who boast about their work for all of the offending law offices, but use pictures taken from Mr. Dolan’s circle of closest business partners.
Plan C: What law firm is used by Dolan’s businesses? Forward the name of the firm to the Security team with a note demmanding they are added to the “naughty” list.
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There is that tv trope where dude sells a mask of his own face to give people privacy in the surveillance state…
Imagine securities response when 15 of the same lawyer walk in different doors.
Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander
The article confirms that any business can refuse service to anyone. There are signs on most business’ windows or near the cash register saying just that. But if the mom and a female partner were excluded, there might be some tenuous grounds for a suit because she’d be a protected class.
What if Disney decided to exclude Gov. DeSantos, the legislators, and staff from all Disney properties world wide? They would be banned from all the parks, the stores, the resorts, and any Disney-run event. Maybe even excluded from subscribing to the Disney Cable Channel. I don’t think Disney needs to be in some sort of litigation against the State of Florida. They can exclude them “just because”.
If it happens, hijinx will ensue. And I’ll buy a 48-serving box of Popcorn from CostCo.
Re: Florida GOP ban
I’m all in favor of Disney properties AND ANYONE banning the dipshits from their property.
I like the way you think and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ&ab_channel=NickKing
E
This kind of behaviour could get ugly
So, for a smaller business refusing a smaller group of people, it’s not such a big deal, but what happenes when very large businesses start refusing service to very large groups of people? Say google stats refusing service to everyone working for a company litigating against them? What about MasterCard? Amazon? What if the owner of Pepsi insists that everyone who sells their product not serve certain people?
This incident serves as a firm reminder that “good” and “legal” are not identical concepts, nor are “evil” or “illegal”. What is happening here raises serious concerns, it may cause harm to some people, but that does not inherently make it illegal.
The law does not always embrace what is good, and may encourage bad and hurtful behavior at times, but it is still the law.
If you can’t see the problem with the bolded thing…
Well, I’ll see you out in reality when corps hire mercs to enforce these things. Could be my cyberpunk-fueled paranoia kicking in, but…
A secret blacklist, how very very corporate American.
Nobody mentioned the photo
To my European eyes the story should not have been possible: Where did they get pictures from random attorneys? Here I would expect some privacy not to be photographed/ stalked on public places. And (more realistically) if it was taken from some web page there surely is some TOS / copyright that should prevent using them in another system?
I get that these are not technical hurdles. But it seems odd to me that neither article nor comments mention how the attorney’s picture for the data base could have been obtained legally.
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It’s available on the (Davis Saperstein and Salomon websitr)[https://www.dsslaw.com/our-firm/attorneys/kelly-analiese-conlon/], which conveniently guarantees you have the the person working for a firm involved in a case against you.
Try searching for Kelly Conlon, and you will see why scraping the net for peoples pictures could be more that a little problematic.
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Sure, I thought as much as well. But I would hope that in Europe there‘d be some law against taking people‘s image and running it through your scanning system. Not MGM‘s photos, no consent from either photographer or subject. I guess it’s different in the US?
I would hope that even using your own photos and IDs would be illegal here – is McD allowed to facially recognise all customers and see how often or when they visit?
Does anyone know more?
Monkey See..
Doesn’t the government do the exact same thing with a no-fly list?
You have to buy a ticket and plan to go somewhere – you show up at the venue and then you find out you’re on the list. No refund – no flying – just to bad.
I do wonder if large entertainment companies pulling stunts like this leads to an environment where people can’t retain counsel for litigation, for their (prospective lawyers’) fear that they will be excluded from literally everything.
No one, for instance, would willingly risk being put on Amazon’s shitlist. What if you injured by employee negligence at Disney World, are lawyers going to shun you because their 12 yr old kid’s Disney+ account will be canceled?
I could understand if Madison Square Gardens were ejecting some lawyer snooping around trying to find dirt (something they really farm out to PIs anyway), but to just refuse to do business with them (or in this case, take their money and then throw them out) is beyond absurd, and I don’t think courts will take kindly to it… judges tend to protect officers of the court from shenanigans.
And at least in this case, I’ll agree with them on it, when the eventual smackdown occurs.
Whats been missed
How did their pictures get into MSG’s facial recognition system to begin with? Are they routinely staking out law offices and other stalking activities?
Way too credulous
Having a fair amount of experience with the facial rec/AI vendors for sports venues, the reporting on this story is far, far too credulous. Sure, MSG may have advanced beyond other arenas in this space and are using that technology primarily to enforce ownership’s petty grudges…
Or the ticket was bought with or forwarded to a work email (or a credit card previously used to purchase an account on that email) and they had a simple system job flagging those barcodes, populating a ‘hot sheet’ of attendees (with photos) and sending an alert to security when the barcodes scanned in.
The one that takes a couple hours of analyst/dev time and easily accessible data from a vendor like zoominfo is far more likely (albeit less sexy) than MSG having successfully implemented this tech.
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Is reading hard?
If you want to be skeptical better improve those reading comprehension skills, because it’s a fine line being skeptical and a fool.
Fair warning...
If your company is going to exclude people from your venue using facial recognition for trivial reasons unrelated to security, you should probably make sure you aren’t beholden to any government entities for any kind of licensing or approval.
The Thomas Crown Affair
Thank you, That Anonymous Coward.
I appreciate your help in deciding what tonight’s movie night will be. Thomas Crown (remake with Brosnan) it is.
Security is a theater. TSA makes it not entertaining. Hollywood makes it better.
Thanks for the reminder!
E
Possibly the stupidest move ever
“I’m a corporation with deep pockets. I know, why don’t we annoy the hell out of a bunch of lawyers in a pure retaliation dick move that costs them money. What could go wrong?”
Actually, they’re NOT “free” to exclude anyone for any reason. They hold a state liquor license. The terms of that license stipulate that they’re open to the public. Not to “the public except employees of firms that litigate against them”. They’re in violation of their liquor license terms and can have them revoked. Now, if they want to run a dry venue, then they can exclude anyone they want (possibly), but as currently operated, they can’t.
Liquor license
Yeah they ARE free to exclude ANYONE at ANY time..
Please see
https://www.newyorkalcoholtraining.com/ny-alcohol-laws/
Have a great day.
A commenter on Ars Technica’s coverage has pointed out that contrary to “they can exclude anyone at any time,” MSG already knew its lawyer bans were illegal under New York state law, as ruled by the New York State Supreme Court on November 14th:
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbykkzgvq/frankel-msgtix–pigrantedinhutcher.pdf
Wow, that’s going to work out!
About the only real, rational, claim anyone has is the cost of the ticket. And honestly, outside of whatever message is being projected here, how many of us wouldn’t jump at a chance to block lawyers from our locales?
In a country where both political parties have hacks litigating for hurt feelings?
Right of property. When a person is hostile to the organisation, it makes perfect sense to ban them.
SECTION 40-B
Wrongful refusal of admission to and ejection from places of public entertainment and amusement
Civil Rights (CVR) CHAPTER 6, ARTICLE 4
§ 40-b. Wrongful refusal of admission to and ejection from places of
public entertainment and amusement. No person, agency, bureau,
corporation or association, being the owner, lessee, proprietor,
manager, superintendent, agent or employee of any place of public
entertainment and amusement as hereinafter defined shall refuse to admit
to any public performance held at such place any person over the age of
twenty-one years who presents a ticket of admission to the performance a
reasonable time before the commencement thereof, or shall eject or
demand the departure of any such person from such place during the
course of the performance, whether or not accompanied by an offer to
refund the purchase price or value of the ticket of admission presented
by such person; but nothing in this section contained shall be construed
to prevent the refusal of admission to or the ejection of any person
whose conduct or speech thereat or therein is abusive or offensive or of
any person engaged in any activity which may tend to a breach of the
peace.
The places of public entertainment and amusement within the meaning of
this section shall be legitimate theatres, burlesque theatres, music
halls, opera houses, concert halls and circuses.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CVR/40-B
Thanks for sharing. It is very helpful for me and also informative for all those users who will come to read.
Thanks for sharing. It is very helpful for me and also informative for all those users who will come to read.